Release date?

[jack1974]

Yes that's true. I think probably the best way is how we did with Chalassa in SOTW. (spoiler in case someone haven't played that yet)

Spoiler:

By "default" she dies, but you can save her through a very difficult side-quest.

However in that case (Loren) those are just epilogues, not part of the main story, so to be treated a bit differently I think? I mean, obviously at one point the love interest will die, nobody lives forever those epilogues just described how it happened. Maybe is better to omit that part completely though.

[Franka]

They had the same discussion with Mass Effect 3. Everything lies in ruins and Shepard dies. Well, if the Milky Way would not have survivved on it's last breath, the whole story about the reapers attacking and eradicating all live would have not been credible.

What color ending was that?

[Maruok]

Wouldn't this make the game boring and strongly reduce the motivation for replay?

I found the end of Loren/Elenor fitting. The game stated that there are two ways for an amazon / queen to die: Step down for her daugther or be killed. So Loren was granted an honorable death in the world of the amazons. It is the way of life she wanted to live.
They had the same discussion with Mass Effect 3. Everything lies in ruins and Shepard dies. Well, if the Milky Way would not have survivved on it's last breath, the whole story about the reapers attacking and eradicating all live would have not been credible.
If thepeople only accept happy endings with their character, I can understand from a business point of view to supply them with it. But it will also limit the writer's freedom for the story. Thus I think you should make the happy ending either very hard to reach or sell it as an "upgrade" for those, who cannot get along with a "not-so-snuggly"-ending.

I quote this post entirely! I obviously understand giving customers what they desire, but forcing the authors to write happy endings only kills 90% of the motivation to complete the game in my opinion (why should I play it to the end, if I already know what is going to happen?)
Personally, my favorite kind of endings are the bittersweet ones (happy, but not unrealistically happy). But I always LOVE surprises, so...
Keep going Jack!

[jack1974]

Hehe the last few posts should be a clear example of what us (authors) have to face every day. And I personally agree with both of you, but what happened when SOTW was out, or Roomates was out? in both cases, forums outrage
The ONLY solution is to have different endings that vary depending on your in-game choices and make sure there's a way to get a "more or less" happy ending
Amber will be like this and I think a good example of how to do it.

[DunKalar]

I can understand that Jack. But was it really a "forum outrage" or just vandalism of a minor few? How many games have you sold and how many % of them raged on the forums? I think they are fewer than you might have percieved it.

Mass Effect was just horribly written from a writer's craft point of perspective. But your stories are well written, so I would not focus on the few "screamers" too much. There are so many VN / games with happy romantic endings. If you just want too have this type of ending - play them and get your shipping. The ending should fit into the world / storyline / drama and not artificially tie everything to the same ending - like they did in mass effect. Otherwise I do not want to explore the other "choices" I can make, since I already know what will happen. And in my oppinion, good / narrow choices are what makes a story great.
Let's be realistic: Most game mechanics have already been supplied on the market. It feels like 97 % of the published games are just "old game X" with a grafics and control update. What keeps franchises running for decades are gripping stories with the freedom to chose between options. That's what I liked about your past games. A lot of different things could happen. That's why I cleared Loren 1 like 5 or 6 times (and because queen Chambarra ordered me to do so in my sleep).
But I strongly suggest to compare the number of users who complained with the number of sold games Might give you a better point of perspective.

[jack1974]

Such comparisons would be pointless... since obviously I sold more copies of the game than the complaints I got
But you need to consider that not everyone who didn't like the endings writes in forums as well.
I'd say that considering my small numbers the "noise" was noticeable, both here and in Steam forums.

Anyway, since my games have multiple branching/endings, this is not going to be a problem. It's not like I'm forcing the writer to say "write ONLY good endings" or "only bad endings".
Once Amber is out, you'll see what I mean. That's a good example

[Franka]

I think the issue with Roommates and SotW was that the 1 out of 1 possible yuri romance ended badly. Just like it does in so much mainstream media. At least there were multiple options in Loren.

[jack1974]

In Roommates even many other romances ended badly though haha probably was a bit too much!

[Aleema]

Honestly, I'd like a happy ending, too, for a change. >.>

Namely with a lesbian relationship, and here's the reason why--speaking as a lesbian... it's actually a more rare in media from literature, movies, music, and yes even video games for lesbians to have a happy ending than a tragic one. It's a vastly more common of a phenomenon within movies and literature especially for lesbian characters' relationship (though slightly less so (not by much) in the case of male gay characters) to suddenly end tragically whether through break-up, circumstance or death. More often than not within literature it's a tragic death. But, I mean, even Loren 1 ending for Elenor and Loren ends in tragedy, by its end the world is saved and everyone can go home and become family men/women and yet abruptly Loren is challenged and dies. And my reaction as gay woman hoping at last for a happy ending is this:


And I'm like, "Again? AGAIN?!", because it's such a commonality within gay literature/movies for the two women's relationship to end in this manner that it's become a cliche.

This isn't just an observation on my part, in fact, it's observation made by many film and literature critics and researchers that have noticed this as a common trend and theme that has gone on for literal ages even into our current modern, and in many cases disturbingly so. A lot of times when I bring this up, I'll get some hipster telling me that a (paraphrasing) "tragic ending is more unique" to which I always counter, "If that's what's most common, how is it then more unique?". Or they'll tell me that things ending in tragedy is more "interesting". To which I often have to explain to them that when 95% (that's not an exact figure but not much of an exaggerated one) of the media that portrays your sexuality consistently ends terribly for those characters whom share it--how "interesting" it is wanes severely to being "not interesting at all" over the years of your life after seeing it time and again because they being the vast majority (to enormous extents) of options available to you for viewing.

And I know I got all super serious pants here with all of that, but I'm just saying the more "unique" and "interesting" route for a gay relationship, especially a lesbian one... would be for it to be a happy ending, because they are so RARE within gay literature, films, and even games (though in the case of games it's not as bad (not even close to being as bad)). Anyway...

So coming full circle, I'm just hoping for a happy ending for a change... T_T

Kharlene, you are very right about death being a tired trope in lesbian/gay fiction. Jack wrote ideas for some of the epilogues, but I am only to blame for Loren's epilogues. I didn't see it as a bad ending, I'm sorry. I pictured them very old when this happened, it wasn't like 5 years later. It was more like 30+ years. They had a full life together and Loren finally grew weak/old enough to be respectfully challenged. She knew it was going to happen - everyone did - and she made peace with Elenor, arranged for living, etc. ... but you are absolutely right that it completely falls into that ugly trap and I can see why you are upset.

I am definitely an advocate for "everyone gets a happy ending! (if you earned it)" because the first time that you reach an ending is very important to the story. Replayability be damned, your first ending will color your entire experience. Your playthrough was tarnished and that's my fault. So I want to personally say that I am sorry.

[wolfmare]

So is it possible Loren 2 comes out this year？