different body sizes (was Loren 2 colored camp thread)

[P_Tigras]

Those images were done a lot of time ago (2 years ago I think!). In recent times I added more variety, like Krimm in SOTW, and I have also commissioned some more amazons with different body builds:

I'm going to chime in late here on this one. The second image certainly fits in well with what one would expect for a society of warrior women. The first image on the other hand will likely raise some eyebrows.

[Anima_]

It will certainly raise some eyebrows, but chubby or even fat male warriors aren't exactly unheard of in various media. At the moment only an example from a modern show comes to mind: Flashpoints sergeants Parker, who leads a SWAT team.
Not every soldier will look like they jumped out of an recruitment poster.

[kadakithis]

No kidding, more chiseled pecs are also more of a modern thing as much. It was very common now and then to have chubby/strong characters. A layer of fat over muscles is actually really normal. Some of the strongest people I have ever seen looked fat, but you realized they had just as much muscle but fat over it and they lifted a lot of weights.

A lot of old action books, the fat character was always the strongest, and I think this has something to do with it.

[jack1974]

The character is fat, but not excessively. Her weapon is a polearm, which can keep opponent at distance, and you only need to be quick with your arms (think Friar Tuck from Robin Hood !). I think the various media brainwashed people thinking that ALL fighters must be body-building types, when in reality it's definitely not necessary.
She would lose in a fight against Loren? of course, as Amukiki or anyone else would but could beat easily some thinner but weaker or less experienced humans, orcs, goblins, whatever.

[Anima_]

Ah books was the memory jagging keyword. Of course how could I possible forget Obelix

[Franka]

Obelix gets a free pass - he fell into the magic cauldron.

[P_Tigras]

First let me say that I don't have an issue with the inclusion of a "fat" warrior woman into the game. I was simply noting that not everyone will react to it positively. From a marketing perspective it's certainly a brave thing for winterwolves to do. That said, I do enjoy a good discussion, and I'm going to respond to some of the comments made.

No kidding, more chiseled pecs are also more of a modern thing as much.

Agreed.

It was very common now and then to have chubby/strong characters. A layer of fat over muscles is actually really normal. Some of the strongest people I have ever seen looked fat, but you realized they had just as much muscle but fat over it and they lifted a lot of weights. A lot of old action books, the fat character was always the strongest, and I think this has something to do with it.

Common is a relative term. Those builds certainly existed, but they were nowhere near as prevalent in medieval or pre-medieval times as they are today. In fact that sort of weight was considered a sign of affluence because regular folk couldn't afford the amount of calorie-rich foods required to put on that sort of weight. Meat was expensive, and the heavily processed oils and sugary syrups used in nearly everything today did not yet exist. Nor did they have cars to drive everywhere. The affluent may have rode horses, but horses were incredibly expensive, and common folk as well as the vast majority of soldiers and guards did lots and lots of walking.

The added mass that comes from fat can add momentum and force to a punch, a kick, or a tackle, but it also reduces acceleration/speed (thus taking away some of that added momentum and force), reduces endurance, and significantly increases the risk of injury. It also isn't as useful with melee weapons as it is in unarmed combat, as it doesn't make the effective mass of most weapons any greater, nor does it make the holes they poke any larger. It is true however that the human body tends to develop as much muscle as it needs, and heavier folk need more muscle mass to move that weight around. So a 240lb man with a 30lb beer belly is very likely stronger than a 150lb man in great physical shape, even while he's slower, tires out faster, and places more stress on his joints, most especially his knees. On the other hand another 240lb man who isn't overweight would have a significant advantage over both men.

[yayswords]

Can't fat be considered a last line of defense too? I mean if you're ripped, even getting hit by the clumsiest slash of a blade will damage your muscles.

[kadakithis]

First let me say that I don't have an issue with the inclusion of a "fat" warrior woman into the game. I was simply noting that not everyone will react to it positively. From a marketing perspective it's certainly a brave thing for winterwolves to do. That said, I do enjoy a good discussion, and I'm going to respond to some of the comments made.


The added mass that comes from fat can add momentum and force to a punch, a kick, or a tackle, but it also reduces acceleration/speed (thus taking away some of that added momentum and force), reduces endurance, and significantly increases the risk of injury. It also isn't as useful with melee weapons as it is in unarmed combat, as it doesn't make the effective mass of most weapons any greater, nor does it make the holes they poke any larger. It is true however that the human body tends to develop as much muscle as it needs, and heavier folk need more muscle mass to move that weight around. So a 240lb man with a 30lb beer belly is very likely stronger than a 150lb man in great physical shape, even while he's slower, tires out faster, and places more stress on his joints, most especially his knees. On the other hand another 240lb man who isn't overweight would have a significant advantage over both men.

Didn't mean to shorten your comment but I can never keep up with Quotes line by line XD

Actually, the chiseled look is one where normal fat everyone has is Also worked off, sometimes well and sometimes very poorly. The skin is suctioned to the muscles which has a more defined look but much more common today where you have to try to look like that. Most of the time a normal layer of fat even a very fit person has develops around the muscle making someone look fat when in fact they have a normal amount surrounding their muscle. This is actually way healthier than say bodybuilding, which is known to have high health risks.

In a non fantasy setting, I would say the larger amazon is in better shape, since the body builder type looks strong but it makes you very weak, endurance wise, the eating and actions needed to keep it up. I work out quite a bit. I love bulking up, but I know my fat friend can out run any of my bodybuilding friends, and way healthier. Weirdly enough, a fat person who excersizes often (as an amazon would) doesn't always lose weight but they counter most if not all the health problems of being overweight.

Live fast, die young and leave a good looking corpse is a motto in bodybuilding and used more than you may think. Almost any health problem associated with being fat I can guarantee is rampant in bodybuilding community, even those who dont take steroids. I still remember when we all took physicals and my friend was shown on multiple tests to be healthier than all of us. It was a wake up call.

So when I see characters like Rei, I notice he was fit in the first game, but I want to stage an intervention in Loren 2, but I realize that is due to my experience and get that fantasy/sci fi muscles work way different in real life, more is always better and comes without extra side effects which is awesome!

[P_Tigras]

1) Many bodybuilders live an unhealthy lifestyle that prioritizes appearance over health. In addition, a cut/ripped body in and of itself can be bad for a woman's health as womens' bodies are designed to operate with a higher percentage of body fat than mens'.

2) Nevertheless elite level athletes in many competitive sports drop their body fat percentage down to maximize performance. Top runners for example tend to be very lean and chiseled. When was the last time you saw an overweight person win an Olympic running event? I can't recall ever seeing it.

3) There is no law or rule that prevents very strong people from also being overweight, including lots of off-season bodybuilders. Just because they're physically strong doesn't mean they're necessarily physically fit. As BMI increases so too does the risk of heart disease, stroke, diabetes, cancer, arthritis, gall stones, etc...

4) The "normal" layer of fat carried by most fit persons will prevent them from looking cut/ripped, and gives women their curves, but it doesn't necessarily make a person look fat, although there are a number of factors (age, weight distribution, poor abdominal strength, excess skin, a recent large meal, water retension, etc...) that can effect this. Of course I suspect that kadakithis and I may have different definitions of "physically fit" and "normal layer of fat on a fit person".

5) IMHO Rei is fine in Loren 2. There are men who naturally look like that and live long and healthy lives. Given his build, Rei strikes me as one of those. There are also those who work hard to reduce their body fat to gain a performance advantage that gain that look as a side-effect. As long as someone isn't engaging in an unhealthy lifestyle to attain that look I don't have an issue with it.