story/characters stuff (SPOILERS!)

Classic VN/RPG, all romance combos, social talent system https://www.winterwolves.com/cursedlands.htm
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mastro
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Re: story/characters stuff (SPOILERS!)

Post by mastro » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:48 am

True, maybe
Spoiler:
it's Ryzom who in the end fell in love with Karen and at the last minute he told her or something, and because of this the lizardmen killed him? It's more open ended than I thought

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Franka
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Re: story/characters stuff (SPOILERS!)

Post by Franka » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:34 am

My final point of critique on this (promise). I think you're falling into the trap that sequel/prequel writers often do: Overexplaining things in the original that didn't really need an explanation. The "maybe I can fix this/make this more clear" trap that usually ends up adding something totally unnecessary.

To be clear, I think the rest of Cursed Lands is really well written, and I love that we have so much choice throughout the game, everything is about choice (except that ending :P). I even went through all the 100 affection "turned" ending variations just to see what changed (except Jasper, no love for Jasper since he flashed my female MC).
Spoiler:
I was a little surprised that none of those endings had you turning your love interest to join you for eternity, btw.

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jack1974
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Re: story/characters stuff (SPOILERS!)

Post by jack1974 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:40 am

Heh, yes
Spoiler:
I thought about having one become a vampire, I mean it was a "normal" choice. I didn't do it, but of course this doesn't mean that couldn't happen to one of the various couples, especially with humans who would live a much shorter life (Leena, Jasper, etc). So while I didn't write it, it's mostly because the epilogues describe the immediate events after the end, but I like to think that some of those will become a vampire couple in future :)

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Re: story/characters stuff (SPOILERS!)

Post by SirSlothMan » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:38 am

Spoiler:
I will say, after revisiting the romance with Eleanor and Karen knowing the truth about Ryzom i'm noticing how a fair few of the conversations with Karen feel devalued and odd now. Like when talking to her on if she loved Ryzom, Eleanor puts her hand to Karen's heart and says 'this is law' when actually it wasn't, it was her mind that was charmed. Or in they're sex scene together when Karen talks about how she 'only believed love could happen once in ones life' or when Grob uses the image of Ryzom to make her hesitate. I don't know, it just feels very strange now, knowing that queen Karen was basically magically tricked and charmed, fell in love against her will, was used on that basis and even after Ryzom died she still loved him as if it were genuine (maybe it was but then if she is a lesbian then why did she still feel herself attracted and longing for him). That being said I do sort of like how its ambiguous as to why Ryzom was dead and not Karen and that makes it all very curious to me. Just thought i'd give my critiques and thoughts on that scene as I honestly feel it devalued a lot of Karen and her role in Loren 1.

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jack1974
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Re: story/characters stuff (SPOILERS!)

Post by jack1974 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:42 am

So what if
Spoiler:
I change the scene and remove the magic? The lizardmen still ask Ryzom to have Karen fall in love with her, but without magic? would that be better? Or I can just say the Lizardmen want revenge against Karen, and at same time their next sacrificial victim (Ryzom) has escaped, and stop.
I mean, I only wanted to justify why Lizardmen hold a grudge against Karen, but I can change that little epilogue scene without problem since the game is not officially out yet :) thanks

myoksy
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Re: story/characters stuff (SPOILERS!)

Post by myoksy » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:56 am

while "because magic" is not the most elegant plot arc I don't think you need to change it if you're satisfied with the scene. The Stockholm syndrome is a thing, be it triggered by a hostage situation or love spells.

Lathtal
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Re: story/characters stuff (SPOILERS!)

Post by Lathtal » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:33 am

After some thought, my suggestion would be
Spoiler:
the Lizardmen plant a suggestion in Ryzom's mind, to carry out the same scheme without him putting any spells on Karen. Much the same plan, and twist on events, and explains why they kill him for succeeding at getting her to their temple. He's just a pawn.
For what it's worth.

SirSlothMan
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Re: story/characters stuff (SPOILERS!)

Post by SirSlothMan » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:56 am

Spoiler:
Don't get me wrong I really like that your trying to fill in plot holes, its a sign of someone trying to improve their work and I respect that a lot. Mostly I think setting Ryzom up as a fairly straight up evil cultist who enchants Karen (with a possible but inevitable failure in trying to save Karen later) invalidates his character (along with some of Karen) and his impact on the story a lot for me in Loren 1 and Cursed Lands. One idea would be Ryzom being a young and naive cult initiate whose being put to the ultimate test and being sent out by the lizard king to exact revenge on Karen by implanting him with the amazons and having him trick her or otherwise lead her to the swamps to her death, by any means he see's fit. End it with Ryzom stuttering out a 'Why her?' and a 'Y-yes I understand.' Some slight hesitation without him outright saying that he's absolute in this or not. And whether or not Ryzom actually charmed Karen or fell in love with her naturally (and vice versa) is left unspecified as to leave it open ended for audiences as well as to whether or not he had last minutes doubts and tried to help her but was killed in the process. Otherwise my ignorant opinion is to just remove him from the cult altogether, have the lizards mention him in passing without him being part of their group. Just my idea on how I believe it could be improved to better fit Karen and the story, hope this looks good and sane to both you and other fans. But thanks a whole lot for responding and actually listening to criticism, means a lot to actually see the dev communicating with fans like this so thanks and I hope to see more Karen soon. :D

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jack1974
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Re: story/characters stuff (SPOILERS!)

Post by jack1974 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:47 pm

Yes just to be clear it's not like I'll discuss every future choice :lol: However in this case since it also impact directly a character of Loren, I wanted to make sure I wasn't ruining the experience. I have also asked Aleema (Loren's original writer) for feedback, so we'll decide together a way to end this.
Spoiler:
Probably being more vague about Ryzom is not a bad idea. The main thing for me was to provide a reason for the Lizardmen to capture Karen, so after that's done, the rest is not so important :)

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jack1974
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Re: story/characters stuff (SPOILERS!)

Post by jack1974 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:07 pm

OK spoke with Aleema who suggested a better ending epilogue. I'll probably need a few days to do it, but it's completely different from this one :)

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