general feedback thread

A VN/CCG hybrid game with all romance combos https://www.winterwolves.com/pscd.htm
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jack1974
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Re: general feedback thread

Post by jack1974 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:31 pm

I definitely will NEVER make a game like SOTW again. The end result was in my opinion good, but really not worth it :)

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Harbinger1975
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Re: general feedback thread

Post by Harbinger1975 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:04 pm

jack1974 wrote:I definitely will NEVER make a game like SOTW again. The end result was in my opinion good, but really not worth it :)
I dunno, Jack. I really loved Seasons of the Wolf and Loren. I love a good long story that will make me think. Yeah, I do agree sometime filler quests can bit a bit blah. But a side quest that affects how you approach the main quest down the line is nice. Do you gain an ally or make an enemy who will help you in the end (see Sauzer). That kind of thing.
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Re: general feedback thread

Post by Pace675 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:12 pm

jack1974 wrote:I definitely will NEVER make a game like SOTW again. The end result was in my opinion good, but really not worth it :)
Have to agree with Harby here, Besides Loren SOTW is my favorite game. I just get disenchanted with games that make you grind to get to the good stuff (Points at DA:I loved to hate that game but played 600+hours), where I think people want a nice blend of action with the story, and grind 5 levels so you can just squeeze by to the next part.

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Harbinger1975
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Re: general feedback thread

Post by Harbinger1975 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:42 pm

But again. This is why with you Jack and the Winter Wolves team, I'm more than willing to wait for a great game than a shoddy one. I will gladly give a developer (Indie or otherwise) my money when they have earned my loyalty and respect with great games. You have. So to me, all the work you and your team do are certainly more than worth the effort even if it seems like it wasn't.
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jack1974
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Re: general feedback thread

Post by jack1974 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:16 am

I meant so complex, with the map, so many enemies/skills/items, etc. I think it was too much. Loren was still fun even if less complex. For sure I won't have a RPG with so many slots again. If you are alone, OK. But a party with so many inventory slots, is a bit crazy. That's just an example.
But there are already games that will be long. Roger Steel will be one of those. But I won't overcomplicate it unnecessarily.
Probably what I meant is that, don't overdo it. Like the iso map when most players wouldn't really care about it, etc :)

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Jaeger
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Re: general feedback thread

Post by Jaeger » Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:53 am

I actually, like the iso map, it made the towns and other environments more enjoyable to navigate than a bunch of text boxes. Besides, once you have the tilesets, I thought you can reuse them for future games.

Multiple slots for armor and accessories worked well for SOTW, given the random nature and multiple properties of each piece. That being said, an RPG get by fine with just one slot for armor slot and maybe a couple for accessories.

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jack1974
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Re: general feedback thread

Post by jack1974 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:01 am

Jaeger wrote:I actually, like the iso map, it made the towns and other environments more enjoyable to navigate than a bunch of text boxes. Besides, once you have the tilesets, I thought you can reuse them for future games.
Yes though it was more complex to make, in particular the dungeon parts. As you can imagine is much harder than a simple 2d map with locations to click. I mean, I could still have a simple 2d town with locations to visit instead of text boxes. Would still look nice to explore, but without the mess of the iso map :)
Jaeger wrote: Multiple slots for armor and accessories worked well for SOTW, given the random nature and multiple properties of each piece. That being said, an RPG get by fine with just one slot for armor slot and maybe a couple for accessories.
I guess depends on tastes in the end. For sure such a big variety of slots, combined with 8 party members, was a bit nuts :lol:
However I'm sure some players liked it!

AFTER SOME HOURS...

Well thinking about it better wasn't probably all the features in particular, but the time that took me to make and all the battle variations. The writer (following my instructions) made specific custom conditions for a lot of battles. Those took time to code and test. It's also the game with most variety of enemies (over 115 if I remember correctly, including some variants).
So yes when compared to Loren, PS1 or QoT, it's clearly those two aspects: too many skills, enemies and custom battle conditions. If I could reduce all those 3 aspects by half, then I guess I could do another SOTW style game :mrgreen:

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Re: general feedback thread

Post by ElfenLied » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:18 pm

If you plan to create another VN card game (which I really wish you did) I'd like to put out some things that imho would have made my experience with PS:CD even better than it already was. Note: this doesn't mean that these modifications would made it a better game:I am not really in the position to make such assumptions so I am only giving my opinion according to my personal tastes. Take my words for what they are then.

1) I wish I could have access to the battle info before the battle started. For example I found that for turn limited battles it was better to enter with a smaller deck composed almost by cards that gave you instant attack and with the breach feature. Battle where you had to resist #number of turns at the opposite require a deck with a lot of walls and rebuild cards. So, knowing these info in advance would have saved me the trouble to enter the battle each time, read the info, reload before the beginning of the battle and then create the appropriate deck.

2) Rather than having a bunch of new cards given to me now and then I would have preferred starting with a smaller deck and then having the new cards delivered one by one as reward at the end of each battle. Maybe a mix of stars/new cards as reward would have made the side missions (especially the ones not NPC-related) more appealing.

3) If you wish to rule out entirely the luck factor from the battles you could eliminate the draw and give the player the option to play the cards that he wanted from the selected deck, perhaps by giving him some restrictions on deck creation, in order to exclude the risk of having an initial card combo that makes every battle a cakewalk.

On a side note I am really sad to hear that you won't do another SOTW-like game. But hey, that sentence is 2 years old now, so maybe you've changed your mind in the meantime? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: general feedback thread

Post by jack1974 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:28 pm

Those suggestions are good. I have in mind another VN/Card game but I really MUST finish PS2 and Loren2, because they're super late. I am really thinking to make Undead Lily a card game and remove the draw thing, but have a sort of grimoire which you can use to summon any creature. Of course there would be limits, like max 1 legendary, etc. This requires some changes / tweaks to the card framework though, so I need to check if is possible/how long it would take :)

As for another SOTW-like game, I meant mostly spending 10 months in it, endlessly tweaking act 1 for 3 months and so on. It really wasn't worth it from time spent/money earned point of view :lol:
Cursed Lands took me about 6 months fulltime (but that included also writing, not just coding) and that was worth it, the game did very well. With PS2 I think the experience will be VERY similar to SOTW though :)

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Re: general feedback thread

Post by Franka » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:26 pm

I'm not much of a fan of removing luck/draw. That simply makes it a puzzle game. While the puzzles in the Gwent Thronebreaker game are neat, there's no replay value, and it requires much more focused design when it comes to difficulty. Card balance would also be next to impossible, all cards within a certain rank/cost/whatever would have to be equal, or you'd just have cards that would never get played. (Of course bad cards also exist in PSCD, but you'd often have to put some in the deck and make them work for you if you drew them.) The random factor means you don't have to design quite as tightly for balance, because replaying a game will change everything. I think that's really helpful, as you don't have to worry quite so much about getting everything exactly right.

Anyway, I know the next card game is a long time coming. I'm thinking I should design one myself, but my coding skills are not good enough yet. :lol:

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