Fight Avoiding

The tale of the siblings Althea and Shea https://www.winterwolves.com/seasonsofthewolf.htm
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jack1974
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Re: Fight Avoiding

Post by jack1974 »

Elmsdor wrote: I wonder how many people would be annoyed if Loren 2 had too much combat and not enough romance :?
Well no biggie, just probably the week after release, I would go bankrupt and shut down my site :mrgreen:

Honestly I'm glad if people don't like combats. I like RPG and like to design them but I got so burned out by SOTW that just thinking to do another RPG right now disgusts me. Indeed I'm about to work on some CCGs first. I've realized that after all I prefer to do simpler games myself too :)
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Elmsdor
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Re: Fight Avoiding

Post by Elmsdor »

Haha ouch to that :P

Perhaps you're right and that's at least honest. Maybe limit which series have tactical combat and which ones are just rpgs or games. I recall you said that you preferred the coding/rpg style of PS as that is straight forward, whereas tactical combat of Loren and SoTW was overwhelming. Maybe cut out most of the status effects, and go for explosive numbers. That way, less fiddling, less combat and faster.

Simpler game works but I think you do prefer more than just Visual Novels though yes? :) Do you remember those old style Choose Your Own Adventure combat?

For now, probrably just enjoy the creativity of CCG and story, and leave the mechanical stuff till the burn out is recovered.

I can send you some very difficult save files for your own amusement later, as opposed to the Very Easy one of the other thread

Cheers
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jack1974
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Re: Fight Avoiding

Post by jack1974 »

Elmsdor wrote: Simpler game works but I think you do prefer more than just Visual Novels though yes? :) Do you remember those old style Choose Your Own Adventure combat?
Yes of course, even if to be fair if I was native English speaker I would probably make mostly VN/Dating sim since the thing I enjoy most is the story/characters (in any kind of game).
Anyway, I already said in the past that people shouldn't expect 1 RPG a year from me, because it's impossible. The problem is that SOTW counted as 2 RPGs :lol: I decided to try, but already in middle of coding I remember being super-stressed, always fearing about bugs XYZ, about not making it in time for Christmas and in general (which then revealed to be the truth sadly) to be investing too much time on the game.

I'll make more RPGs in future, but already in planning stage I'll learn to say "NO" to all people's various requests... which in SOTW were a lot:
- only X skills? what about X*2?
- whole act1 is unbalanced, please redesign all battles
- items are boring, should be randomized
- change damage algorithm to X. Then again to Y. No is better Z. Here I made new version Za,Zb,Zc for you, implement, rebuild and reupload the game to test every time! :lol:
- an isometric map would add more exploration bla bla
- and so on, was endless

basically I just tried to implement everyone's feedback blindly, without thinking about the long term consequences on the game, my business and health (spending 10 months coding every single day for hours is not really cool). Maybe I'm just a bad coder that stresses too much, but if I think back at my 2014 working on SOTW, it's not why I became indie for sure. Of course I had also satisfactions while making it, but also too much stress which is not good :wink:

OK I'll stop here, I am probably just in bad mood in this period also for other reasons. But I really think what I've said. Making things too complex is not worth it. Every new successful games have very intuitive interface and simplify things, instead of making them more complex.
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Elmsdor
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Re: Fight Avoiding

Post by Elmsdor »

Did you regret though? It was cool that you tried to implement everyone's suggestion, as to try and build an ideal world/game :)

But what we can hopefully take away as a lesson, is to not overdo it, haha.

A quote if I recall : too many cooks, spoil the broth.

Anywho, I am hugely thankful for SoTW as a nice story with good combat to boot :)

But maybe make long hard combats optional, like the side quests, and skirmishes, quick and dirty. Everyone enjoys a confrontation with a nemesis every once in a while, just not every 2nd combat :D

For now, kick back and write a story. I love immersion and character development myself, and combat brings a more bonding and desperate meaning,you know?

Cheers
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jack1974
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Re: Fight Avoiding

Post by jack1974 »

As I wrote in the blog post, I didn't know before what would happen so "I had to try". Saying that I don't regret it now, it would be a lie :) not making the game itself, but following this feature-creep madness that in the end didn't really bring more players or make a more popular game. But is not the end of the world of course, just a lesson learned!
Anyway, will begin working on the DLC now. Luckily there must be like 20 battles total in it, with only 9-10 being unique :mrgreen:
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Re: Fight Avoiding

Post by Taleweaver »

jack1974 wrote:Anyway, will begin working on the DLC now. Luckily there must be like 20 battles total in it, with only 9-10 being unique :mrgreen:
Many of them are skippable, too, and others offer really nice incentives for finishing them QUICKLY. There's even a reward if you refuse one of the fights (to make up for the XPs you don't get).
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jack1974
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Re: Fight Avoiding

Post by jack1974 »

Haha I was thinking, the main problem now will be that this DLC will really please everyone who liked Loren, but to get it they would need to play and finish the normal game first :lol: After I finish the DLC I'll check if I can find a way to make a "visual novel" mode to skip most of the battles of the base game somehow.
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Re: Fight Avoiding

Post by Troyen »

kadakithis wrote:
jack1974 wrote: Indeed. I feel similarly toward SotW. I like the fights but just fighting seems to have a repetitive effect. I really like the idea of 2 or 3 skills. In that case I don't think healing has to be gotten rid of entirely if it cost more SP than most, healing by one character seems more special rather than a spam, the only problem with this method is regular attacks are boring, and do less damage, and might be even more repetitive if that is the only recourse.
The other problem with that is if healing is so powerful and can only be done by that one high-SP skill, it's effectively the only skill you can use on that character - since you have to hold out in case you need a heal. Leads to less skill diversity on that character.
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jack1974
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Re: Fight Avoiding

Post by jack1974 »

It's all a bit generic... because for example in PS1 having only 4 party members, even with first aid kits and psionic, wasn't possible to make the battles a marathon trying to keep everyone alive. I think another problem was because in SOTW you had so many members, that either with potions or healing skills (even partial healing skills like bards or others) you had many possibilities to keep everyone alive for long.
That kind of big party setup works better with real-time games where the battles length is perceived much differently (and with help of AI-assisted characters is more bearable).
In summary is everything, how the whole game is designed.

For QoT, I'm going to try a particular setup:
- auto heal/full SP after every battle
- only 3 party members (vs a variable amount of enemies but never too big or too high HP)
- limited SP and no heal skills
- and I'm also thinking either no potions, very expensive or limited slots so that you can carry like only 3-4 each mission, so you can't use the potion-spam technique too :wink:

my goal is to have several but very short battles, with some puzzle/rockpaper mechanics so they shouldn't get boring. We'll see the end result :)
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Re: Fight Avoiding

Post by kadakithis »

Sounds fantastic and I can't wait. What is rockpaper mechanics? I keep thinking of someone playing rock, paper, scissors
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