My gambling problem - the issues with equipment

The tale of the siblings Althea and Shea https://www.winterwolves.com/seasonsofthewolf.htm
Post Reply
renke_
Elder Druid
Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:26 pm

Re: My gambling problem - the issues with equipment

Post by renke_ » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:55 am

jack1974 wrote:Yes that's a good question, I would probably need a save (or I can try to look for similar items myself) :)
he, I think I found it: The function doesn't compare Attack for amour pieces :) The difference between the two items is <diff magic>+<diff burning>/10.

A python shell calculates -2/10 as -1 -- with the result 1+(-1)=0 -> The items are identical according to your comparison :)

User avatar
jack1974
Pack leader
Posts: 14792
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: My gambling problem - the issues with equipment

Post by jack1974 » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:02 am

Ah yes, because time ago I didn't had attack bonus on armors. I wasn't even considering Magic!
Cool will fix it now :)

renke_
Elder Druid
Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:26 pm

Re: My gambling problem - the issues with equipment

Post by renke_ » Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:32 am

yayswords wrote:
regen items are more rare than love between Krimm and Riley.
I'm sitting on like 25 SPR total across the party with the act 2 gambling done. Just don't wanna go down to "a few points on a few legendaries" from that. ^^
and here we are at a quite important "strategic decision point". In the traits thread you already explained that you will never go above 20 Will and later (don't find the post) you even said that your attribute point investment in Will was an error because of the regen capabilities of Jariel and items (hope I remember your point correctly). So now you're a quite extreme player (gold exclusively used for equpiment upgrades, delaying encounter wins for regeneration, shop mousewheeling until the perfect set of items is available), less focused users call it a day and simply go on with larger SP pools and tavern visits.

Not sure if there's a *right* way to solve this, but here a a few possibilities:
* keep the current system. Lazy players (=me :)) have worse equipment/lower XP but the benefit of less invested time, everyone else can use the roll-back for optimizing the results (encounters, shops, whatever)
* remove regen capabilities completely (or nearly completely) - no more regen items except some static quest stuff (e.g. unique items for Riley and Krimm), maybe nerfing the regen skills. This would probably mean that it isn't possible anymore to clean all optional encounters (but this could be seen as an improvement: The twins are not half-gods but "accidental heroes")
* some middle way (I still like the idea of more fixed items, but I don't know if they can be balanced and if all player groups are happy with the result...)

User avatar
yayswords
Elder Druid
Posts: 1436
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:34 am

Re: My gambling problem - the issues with equipment

Post by yayswords » Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:38 am

How about a lot of regen items for sale by default (and none randomly) but perhaps even more expensive? Actually I don't think they need to be more expensive, but putting it out there.

That way you can buy the amount you want and if you can't get it all you can get better at managing your economy perhaps :) that is a legitimate challenge, not a test of patience like the casino is.

P.S. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that getting 20 will is a mistake. If I have, I don't stand by it now at least. All my characters have 20 will, except Krimm who has 15 :)
If at first try it doesn't explode, it ain't Jack who wrote the code.

renke_
Elder Druid
Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:26 pm

Re: My gambling problem - the issues with equipment

Post by renke_ » Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:49 am

fixed static regen items could be also restricted to jewellery without any other boni, so the player has to decide if (s)he wants to have regen or other item attributes like magic, attack, ...

renke_
Elder Druid
Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:26 pm

Re: My gambling problem - the issues with equipment

Post by renke_ » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:27 pm

yayswords wrote:I'm pretty sure I haven't said that getting 20 will is a mistake. If I have, I don't stand by it now at least. All my characters have 20 will, except Krimm who has 15 :)
I meant this (probably...) and if this was the one I twisted your words (shame on me) as you said everything except const is not exciting (but another fine example of different play styles: I don't ignore attributes because my party will be categorically equipped with "mad +magic +speed" items ;))

User avatar
jack1974
Pack leader
Posts: 14792
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: My gambling problem - the issues with equipment

Post by jack1974 » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:31 pm

All those problems are because there's this "rollback". In a normal RPG not made with Ren'Py, or if I disable rollback (moauhaha :mgreen:) so it becomes like a standard RPG, you have no problems. In Diablo 3 you can't rollback when you enter the shops but you have to buy the best equipment available AT THE MOMENT. This rollback screws up everything, is like in another RPG you could hit a "cheat" button unlimited time to re-roll the equipment. NO OTHER RPG works like that, also because it would break the whole system.

After some thinking I'm not going to change this. I won't disable rollback but I don't consider that a "normal player behaviour" sorry :lol:

User avatar
yayswords
Elder Druid
Posts: 1436
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:34 am

Re: My gambling problem - the issues with equipment

Post by yayswords » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:36 pm

Yes but in Diablo shops are not my main source of equipment. Like I said in the first post, I wouldn't mind rollback being removed if the shops sold decent stuff by default. But they don't.

For the record... I'm pretty sure Diablo shops reset if you re-enter town.
If at first try it doesn't explode, it ain't Jack who wrote the code.

User avatar
jack1974
Pack leader
Posts: 14792
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: My gambling problem - the issues with equipment

Post by jack1974 » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:43 pm

Diablo was an example :) At least on the PS3, I basically almost never had a good item on a shop. I found the best one by killing opponents.
I think your concept of "decent" is screwed though: because you continuously rollback, you always go for Rare items, and you always raise the bar continuously. So obviously every shop sucks, if you have an equipment like nobody else I saw in saves. If you rollback on shop1 for 50 times until you get HP/SP regen, then of course on next shop is hard that you get such an item, unless you repeat the process again.
I believe renke,fabula, etc play normally and see what's in the shop and AFAIK they still manage to win the battles in Nightmare without having super equipment (all Rare items with regen lol).

I prefer to play the games using what's available, maybe buy some good stuff but surely not go insane if I don't have all rare items on my 8 members party :lol:

User avatar
yayswords
Elder Druid
Posts: 1436
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:34 am

Re: My gambling problem - the issues with equipment

Post by yayswords » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:56 pm

I found the best one by killing opponents.
But in SotW, random loot is as (un)likely to be good as the store items are.

Here's the thing. I could play without the roulette. I'd still lick maps clean without using taverns or potions (except act 1). I already did it before I realized I could buy SPR in act 2. It was unbelievably slow and painful, but I can regen dance everyone to full mana with only Riley's Energize. If I can then beat any given pack, I can beat any sequence of packs.

But what am I going to do with all my gold? I roulette my way to these vastly expensive SPR items, and I still sit on tons of it. If I can beat everything without spending gold on consumables or taverns, that should be rewarded. I shouldn't be able to acquire more gold than I can spend. But I can, and I go to your shops that are 90% full of junk even on a good roll, and I just don't have enough upgrades to buy, yet this is the only thing I can spend gold on.

yayswords playing act 2 "normally" would give you this design problem: Hello Jack. I'm about to start act 3. I have 20,000 gold. Can you design a skill that allows me to throw it at enemies, because I can't seem to find any other use for it.
If at first try it doesn't explode, it ain't Jack who wrote the code.

Post Reply