Let's talk about traits

The tale of the siblings Althea and Shea https://www.winterwolves.com/seasonsofthewolf.htm
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yayswords
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Re: Let's talk about traits

Post by yayswords » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:34 pm

Taking the Restless trait discussion here.
renke_ wrote:The traits are imho small gimmicks and shouldn't be game-changing
Traits require skill points. They should be worth them.

And they are. The +magic trait is +10-20% for my mages, and it would be more for someone less obsessed with roulette. It could be way less for me if I could have a rare heavy +magic item in every slot; I have the gold for that, but not the opportunities. Either way, this is not a "small gimmick" :)

I just think traits should be worth the point at any level. And think of it from a "free trait point" perspective; imagine you could get one trait for free, because it's hard to compete with the diversity of getting your bread and butter skills, which is why I don't say free skill point. At low levels 10% SP restored is not that exciting. But then again, at low levels battles are rather fast, so if we think in terms of "% of your SP spent per battle", then it's pretty alright. Then it's a balanced enough trait.

I cannot emphasize enough that it's a convenience trait though. You all know me and that I categorically refuse to spend gold on potions or at taverns, and I play nightmare all the time, and yet people playing easier difficulties want to be able to use potions between battles etc. This isn't because I'm a genius (though I am), I'm sure 95% the players could do what I do if they had to, but they just don't find the "pixel power" nearly important enough to play roulette for SPR gear or delay victories 20 turns to regen. This trait makes a more casual playstyle viable. Anyone looking to make the strongest party possible should put this trait at the bottom of their wishlist :)
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renke_
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Re: Let's talk about traits

Post by renke_ » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:30 pm

with ~ 100 SP for lvl 1 druids this traits gives one nuke for every 2 to 3 battles, not an insignificant amount. and I will never dance around, especially not 20 turns - the difference between casual and serious games... I envy your +12 speed rings but will myself never do mouswheel acrobatics - we're playing two completely different games here :) Currently it seems that SotW supports both game styles and this isn't the worst result of flooding Jack with change requests in the forum ^^

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jack1974
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Re: Let's talk about traits

Post by jack1974 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:54 pm

Yes definitely want to make the game accessible ALSO to casual gamers :)

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yayswords
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Re: Let's talk about traits

Post by yayswords » Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:03 am

I think there was a misunderstanding somewhere. I think that trait is definitely for casual gamers, and thus I don't mind it being buffed a little. You would have to improve it by ridiculous amounts for me to take it :)

Anyway... we've had the traits for a while now, so I have some feedback. I am working on a new party and planning their every skill pick, and noticing some traits just aren't on the list at all. But let's start with the popular ones.

Toughness and Archwizard: I intend to take these on every character. Archwizard is a significant boost to magic defenses for thieves and warriors, and it allows mages to murder even other mages. Toughness is just generally useful.

Attacker and Defender: I'm debating their usefulness. I would probably love Defender on mages, but I find it much harder to spam traits on them than on warriors and thieves. Meanwhile, the defense increase isn't that exciting for warriors. Chalassa and Jariel, on the other hand, might like it. As for Attacker, I've tried it but not felt all ZOMG about it. It's gonna be a late pick if a pick at all in most cases, I think. Plus for Vaelis I'd be a fool to take Attacker or Defender before taking the equivalent stances ;)

Willpower: Mayyyybe on Rowinda.

Dual Wield: Already babbling about this in the combat thread. I might have to pick it up on Vaelis, it's pretty damn good - surely a better offense investment than Attacker. However dual wield and casino don't mix well. Not that anybody else will understand why. :cry:

Restless: I talked about it in the first line of this post, did you forget what I said already? Amnesiac much huhhh? :P

Cold Blood: Kind of something I wish I had a point for. Maybe I will take it on someone, but it's not in the plans.

Elementalist: Archwizard does the magic defense job so much better. You gotta be utterly terrified of elemental attacks (does anyone have those?) or the ailments to take this.

I think one problem of the last two is that you might find so much resistance randomly on items that they will just overcap you. Oh and I haven't tried the resistance traits either, I'm just judging by what the tin says :P
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jack1974
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Re: Let's talk about traits

Post by jack1974 » Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:18 am

yayswords wrote: I think one problem of the last two is that you might find so much resistance randomly on items that they will just overcap you. Oh and I haven't tried the resistance traits either, I'm just judging by what the tin says :P
Well I made it works so that you have usually just 1 resistance each item, maybe 2 but the second is much lower. Also, you could maybe give up a better Defense / Speed / etc item just for resistance? I don't think, so that's an easy way to get some resistances "without much effort".

renke_
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Re: Let's talk about traits

Post by renke_ » Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:45 am

yayswords wrote:Dual Wield: Already babbling about this in the combat thread. I might have to pick it up on Vaelis, it's pretty damn good - surely a better offense investment than Attacker. However dual wield and casino don't mix well. Not that anybody else will understand why. :cry:
I don't get it - wouldn't be a 40% bonus for the offhand extremly worthwhile if you mousewheel yourself two great one-hand weapons?

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yayswords
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Re: Let's talk about traits

Post by yayswords » Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:51 am

Ahh, a casino virgin...

Let's look at my last party, where my ranger, Krimm and Vaelis all used twohanders. I could then casino my way to a great twohander in a stack of three and their weapons were covered - for the entire act even. Now with one dual-wielder I have to use a different casino session to get a two-stack of good onehanders. I mean sure, they could theoretically appear in the same store I work my way to the twohanders, but not likely to happen. Two dual-wielders... I'll need a third store, because I can't get a four stack of weapons.

THE PAIN
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yayswords
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Re: Let's talk about traits

Post by yayswords » Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:21 pm

Hehe, when I suggested 65% for the DW trait I thought the damage ratio between the best 1h and the best 2h was something like 3:5. Now I found a 26 damage onehander. I'm pretty sure DW would be competitive even without the trait :D
If at first try it doesn't explode, it ain't Jack who wrote the code.

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