The random store selection

The tale of the siblings Althea and Shea https://www.winterwolves.com/seasonsofthewolf.htm
Post Reply
User avatar
yayswords
Elder Druid
Posts: 1436
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:34 am

Re: The random store selection

Post by yayswords » Tue May 20, 2014 12:37 pm

I meant only there could be such a difference between the best and worst items you find. We haven't seen rare items yet, so I won't say they couldn't roflstomp anything I could find in the shop.

This got a little ironic though, it used to be me asking for numbers and you saying I don't need them I just need to have fun. Well I can tell you that whatever that coding mumbo jumbo means, it doesn't change the feeling I have that I need to refresh the shop countless times to find items worth my gold :)

Though taking a look at the actual English of that post, I have to point out that a Fine item doesn't seem to necessarily (but probably on average) have many stats. When I see the F I think: Okay, this item could potentially be awesome (even the most awesome possible), but for sure it will be expensive :P
If at first try it doesn't explode, it ain't Jack who wrote the code.

renke_
Elder Druid
Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:26 pm

Re: The random store selection

Post by renke_ » Tue May 20, 2014 12:52 pm

yayswords wrote:Though taking a look at the actual English of that post, I have to point out that a Fine item doesn't seem to necessarily (but probably on average) have many stats. When I see the F I think: Okay, this item could potentially be awesome (even the most awesome possible), but for sure it will be expensive :P
no, this seems to be only the distribution of item quality for a given shop level.

e.g. a fine store (pQuality=="Fine") - the random picker (NonUniformRandom) has a chance of 10/22 to select a fine item (pQuality2), 5/22 to choose standard and quality, and 2/22 a lousy rusty one.

The RNG god (or devil?) for attribute generation of the item is not invoked in this code snippet.

User avatar
jack1974
Pack leader
Posts: 14647
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: The random store selection

Post by jack1974 » Tue May 20, 2014 1:04 pm

Yes exactly. I have generated a lot of items randomly while testing, and beside the quality also the level matters, a level 1 Rare mace will be better than a level 11 Standard Mace but not by much:
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
fabulaparva
Elder Druid
Posts: 761
Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 9:58 pm

Re: The random store selection

Post by fabulaparva » Tue May 20, 2014 2:30 pm

jack1974 wrote:In the first act I've intentionally put low-quality shops. If I define just ONE shop in Dingirra with Fine quality and many items, that will offer plenty of variety to equip your team.
But as _renke said is not like your behavior is the "normal" expected one :lol: though I'm sure many people will reload, I want to make the game so that it can be won WITHOUT the need to do it. I got saves from renke and fabulaparva for Nightmare and AFAIK they didn't use that trick, so it's OK from my point of view.
Yea, I can confirm that I don't reload shops, and most of the saves I've sent are in NM. The only button I spam is the "restart" at two of the boss fights (Mormont & BigBug). :P

Now, I'm also purrfectly fine is the shops as they are now. If Ninim would offer far better and far more quality items, then the Dingirrans would bring in iron and other raw materials for the elves to work with --regardless of what Shea/Althea supposedly did -- and buy their weapons instead of their pelts, right? Isn't that one of the reasonings why there won't be a trial? Good weapons are hard to find because the materials required to make them are not in abundance. The people of Ninim are afraid that they won't get good raw materials any more if they piss off the Dingirrans. It doesn't even matter that this is only the first chapter; it's hard to live up there in the North, folks. :)

User avatar
yayswords
Elder Druid
Posts: 1436
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:34 am

Re: The random store selection

Post by yayswords » Tue May 20, 2014 3:19 pm

I'm not sure what your point is. The Dingirran vendors suck too, they just have more items. Also where are we gonna be in act three, some shitty place again where you can't motivate the vendors having better items than in Dingirra? Are we gonna go through that entire act without upgrades for lore reasons? :) It's dangerous to go down that road.
If at first try it doesn't explode, it ain't Jack who wrote the code.

Troyen
Elder Druid
Posts: 955
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 2:23 am

Re: The random store selection

Post by Troyen » Tue May 20, 2014 4:39 pm

If you were able to find all the best possible gear for your characters in act 1, what would you buy in act 2? You might see minor upgrades here and there, but unless item power goes up dramatically (which would be bad from a balance standpoint), you could quickly find all the best stuff early on and then find yourself sitting on a pile of gold until the act 3 or act 4 shops open up.

I'm sure gold income was tweaked a bit since my last clear, but I was able to outfit almost every slot on all my three characters with something from act 1. The jewelry definitely wasn't the best quality, but sometimes some stats are better than none (I'm not talking about the +1 items either, there were usually +3/+4 in two stats).

User avatar
yayswords
Elder Druid
Posts: 1436
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:34 am

Re: The random store selection

Post by yayswords » Tue May 20, 2014 4:56 pm

I'm not asking to find all the best possible gear, I'm asking to find decent gear easier. And I think you are overestimating just how good gear I get even with mousewheel roulette. I have one level 6 item (and that was actually a Mormont drop), the rest are 1-3. I have only two fine items. It's nowhere near the best theoretically possible gear, and yet it's better than I ask to be able to find on just one normal visit to the shop, and maybe it's better than anyone else so far has acquired in act one. If the item level to stat budget ratio is anywhere near decent, I should be having no problems finding upgrades among level 7+ items.

If gold is supposed to be our means of acquiring upgrades, then the problem should be managing gold, not finding stuff to spend it on. I should be overwhelmed with choices and have to make the right decisions.

If we'll indeed be fully outfitted with quest rewards one day then I suppose that is something, though.
If at first try it doesn't explode, it ain't Jack who wrote the code.

User avatar
fabulaparva
Elder Druid
Posts: 761
Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 9:58 pm

Re: The random store selection

Post by fabulaparva » Tue May 20, 2014 4:59 pm

yayswords wrote:I'm not sure what your point is. The Dingirran vendors suck too, they just have more items. Also where are we gonna be in act three, some shitty place again where you can't motivate the vendors having better items than in Dingirra? Are we gonna go through that entire act without upgrades for lore reasons? :) It's dangerous to go down that road.
Do I have a point or am I just generally warped in my thinking? :lol:
I meant to say that it makes sense to me that most of Ninim's selection is crap, since they are using this excuse
http://oi61.tinypic.com/b8a0k9.jpg
to give Althea/Shea into slavery. To me, this is a pointer how vast the gap between Dingirra's and Ninim's resources is. We might end up in some godforsaken place later in the game, but will those locations have so bad weapon-making skills and resources that they'll just toss people and money towards Dingirrans out of fear to losing their trade?

Yeah, I'm one of those lunatics who say All for Lore(n) and Lore(n) for all! :lol:

EDIT: The Dingirran shop might as well have some better items, though.

User avatar
yayswords
Elder Druid
Posts: 1436
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:34 am

Re: The random store selection

Post by yayswords » Tue May 20, 2014 5:01 pm

Then maybe you can start arguing that the Dingirrans should pay more for my pelts since Morran is all up in arms about it :)

Furthermore, we could go into exactly WHICH resources are scarce. Is wood scarce in Ninim? No, so anything made out of wood should be higher quality? Pelts are abundant, leather should be excellent! It's really setting yourself up for madness :P
If at first try it doesn't explode, it ain't Jack who wrote the code.

User avatar
fabulaparva
Elder Druid
Posts: 761
Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 9:58 pm

Re: The random store selection

Post by fabulaparva » Tue May 20, 2014 5:06 pm

yayswords wrote:Then maybe you can start arguing that the Dingirrans should pay more for my pelts since Morran is all up in arms about it :)

Furthermore, we could go into exactly WHICH resources are scarce. Is wood scarce in Ninim? No, so anything made out of wood should be higher quality? Pelts are abundant, leather should be excellent! It's really setting yourself up for madness :P
Well, yeah, the Dingirran camp should pay more for my pelts than the tanner! (greed)
Setting myself up for madness? I'm merely getting ready to meet Rowinda. :mrgreen:

(EDIT: I think Daronas mentioned later in the conversation that they haven't been able to mine iron.)

Post Reply