The skills you love and the skills you don't

The tale of the siblings Althea and Shea https://www.winterwolves.com/seasonsofthewolf.htm
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jack1974
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Re: The skills you love and the skills you hate

Post by jack1974 » Thu May 15, 2014 6:57 am

Yep, asking Anima for another formula. I don't want DoT to do more than 10% of total target HP. Otherwise they screw up everything :lol:

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yayswords
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Re: The skills you love and the skills you hate

Post by yayswords » Thu May 15, 2014 7:03 am

I don't know the extent of the changes, but I can tell you, debuff value not included, my druid is better off using Magic Bolt against Mormont's minions than a nuke.

Maybe it's their 50% resistance to like everything...

I feel really impotent as a caster like this. The damage cap is used before resistances come into play. Could resistances not instead be a part of that multiplier mechanic?

Like let's say the max multiplier is 6, but the magic ratio caused it to reach 10. I get the capped multiplier of 6 though, and then 50% resistance is applied to that so I get an effective multiplier of 3 and I cry. If instead the 50% resistance was applied to the actual multiplier I would get a multiplier of 5. I hope Anima understands at least :)
If at first try it doesn't explode, it ain't Jack who wrote the code.

Troyen
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Re: The skills you love and the skills you hate

Post by Troyen » Thu May 15, 2014 7:56 am

Can the multiplier just be at the end?

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yayswords
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Re: The skills you love and the skills you hate

Post by yayswords » Thu May 15, 2014 8:37 am

Yeah same result...

I try not to get too mathy about stuff but a damage cap that is applied before resistances just means resistances make casters suck no matter their magic score.
If at first try it doesn't explode, it ain't Jack who wrote the code.

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jack1974
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Re: The skills you love and the skills you hate

Post by jack1974 » Thu May 15, 2014 8:57 am

So probably was better if I didn't make this change yesterday :wink:
As a general rule if something works fine, why touch it? in this case I did because the resistances seemed to make sense, but if the result is an unbalanced/unplayable game, is worth it? Loren had zero of all those fixes (also because I had less feedback) and nobody ever complained about anything.
Also every day spent on fixes makes the release of the next act delayed...

I am seriously thinking to just revert the changes to how was before...

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jack1974
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Re: The skills you love and the skills you hate

Post by jack1974 » Thu May 15, 2014 9:20 am

OK sorry about previous post if I seemed a bit grumpy :lol: is just that I'm tired of doing all those gameplay changes.
The real question is: should the damage resistance really work on percentage?
A enemy 90% resistant to Water should really protect him from 90% of damage? because if is like that, even changing the damage reduction and everything in the end the damage from that spell will be low compared to others.
Before was working like this: base damage + base damage/resistance. So you would to at minimum the base spell damage, and at maximum twice. Was still a hack/undocumented but seemed to work well.
Anyway, if you have a save where I can see the crappy attack, I can try to tweak and see. But all tweaks that works here might break the game somewhere else... :mrgreen:

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jack1974
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Re: The skills you love and the skills you hate

Post by jack1974 » Thu May 15, 2014 9:31 am

I just tried moving the damage cap at end of calculations, but didn't change the damage of a single point, I guess because is the Magic and elemental resistance that make it lower, not the damage reduction.

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yayswords
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Re: The skills you love and the skills you hate

Post by yayswords » Thu May 15, 2014 9:37 am

Err, I'm not sure why you felt a need to touch resistances like that in the first place. My only concern was the binary nature (and a little the double dipping) of ailment resistances. Then you found an error and decided it had to be changed :P

The magic system was definitely better in the previous build, apart from the poison stuff (and I guess Earth Spike), but I think that fix was a separate change from whatever you did to my nukes :P I do max damage to almost everything but craptastic to Mormont's minions. I managed to win and earned +5 AI understanding, but still.
I just tried moving the damage cap at end of calculations, but didn't change the damage of a single point, I guess because is the Magic and elemental resistance that make it lower, not the damage reduction.
If damage cap isn't involved why am I getting a fixed damage number instead of a variance? Also sending you pre-Mormont save.
If at first try it doesn't explode, it ain't Jack who wrote the code.

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jack1974
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Re: The skills you love and the skills you hate

Post by jack1974 » Thu May 15, 2014 9:50 am

Honestly I have no clue anymore how it works :lol: When you work on something 2 weeks straight changing it every day in the end is rather confusing :mrgreen:
Got your save, on the skeleton mage you still do 27-30 with Inferno, while with ranged combat you do at best 17-22... it doesn't seem too bad to me ?
Anyway, will revert the spell damage calculation as was before, since was already balanced and working better. I think having base damage + base damage/resistance is a good measure to prevent unbalancing :)

renke_
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Re: The skills you love and the skills you hate

Post by renke_ » Thu May 15, 2014 9:54 am

jack1974 wrote:on the skeleton mage you still do 27-30 with Inferno, while with ranged combat you do at best 17-22... it doesn't seem too bad to me ?
But Inferno is a 300% skill while the archer tops at 150% - I can understand y.'s "ecstasy" :)

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