different body sizes (was Loren 2 colored camp thread)

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P_Tigras
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Re: colored female camp talk poses thread

Post by P_Tigras » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:35 am

yayswords wrote:Can't fat be considered a last line of defense too? I mean if you're ripped, even getting hit by the clumsiest slash of a blade will damage your muscles.

Bleeding kills, regardless of whether it was fat that was slashed or muscle that was slashed. So I don't believe the risk of death is much different. On the other hand cut muscles, or even worse, cut tendons and ligaments, can cripple a person, while cut fat will not.

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yayswords
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Re: colored female camp talk poses thread

Post by yayswords » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:43 am

P_Tigras wrote:On the other hand cut muscles, or even worse, cut tendons and ligaments, can cripple a person, while cut fat will not.
That's what I was asking, yeah. Then on the other hand, doesn't the fat protect your blood vessels too?
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Re: colored female camp talk poses thread

Post by kadakithis » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:27 am

P_Tigras wrote:1) Many bodybuilders live an unhealthy lifestyle that prioritizes appearance over health. In addition, a cut/ripped body in and of itself can be bad for a woman's health as womens' bodies are designed to operate with a higher percentage of body fat than mens'.

2) Nevertheless elite level athletes in many competitive sports drop their body fat percentage down to maximize performance. Top runners for example tend to be very lean and chiseled. When was the last time you saw an overweight person win an Olympic running event? I can't recall ever seeing it.

3) There is no law or rule that prevents very strong people from also being overweight, including lots of off-season bodybuilders. Just because they're physically strong doesn't mean they're necessarily physically fit. As BMI increases so too does the risk of heart disease, stroke, diabetes, cancer, arthritis, gall stones, etc...

4) The "normal" layer of fat carried by most fit persons will prevent them from looking cut/ripped, and gives women their curves, but it doesn't necessarily make a person look fat, although there are a number of factors (age, weight distribution, poor abdominal strength, excess skin, a recent large meal, water retension, etc...) that can effect this. Of course I suspect that kadakithis and I may have different definitions of "physically fit" and "normal layer of fat on a fit person".

5) IMHO Rei is fine in Loren 2. There are men who naturally look like that and live long and healthy lives. Given his build, Rei strikes me as one of those. There are also those who work hard to reduce their body fat to gain a performance advantage that gain that look as a side-effect. As long as someone isn't engaging in an unhealthy lifestyle to attain that look I don't have an issue with it.
Woah this seems more of an ongoing argument and I usually avoid those, and feel the disscussion is clogging up the actual thread, but you can PM me. I just meant from my experience the public often misunderstands BMI and its effect on health and that lean and muscular is very different from heavily chiseled.

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Re: colored female camp talk poses thread

Post by jack1974 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:16 am

Haha yes, I think will split this thread into another one in the "Golden Lion Pub" since it derailed a bit the official thread :)

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Re: different body sizes (was Loren 2 colored camp thread)

Post by P_Tigras » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:48 pm

I usually quote, but it seemed quicker and easier to go point by point in my last reply. It's also a subject to which I've given a great deal of thought over the years, and I was clearly transitioning into debate mode. :lol:

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Re: different body sizes (was Loren 2 colored camp thread)

Post by P_Tigras » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:52 pm

BTW, I also agree that BMI is often misunderstood. Not every man with a BMI in the high 20's is overweight, and likewise, not every woman with a BMI in the 17's or low 18's is necessarily underweight. It's useful for statistical purposes when tracking large groups, but not necessarily accurate when applied to individuals unless the numbers get very high or very low. It doesn't differentiate between sexes, nor by age, and neither does it differentiate between muscle & bone mass on the one hand and fat mass on the other. It's all the same to the formula.

I can say that as BMI goes up, particularly once we get into the 30's and higher, that health risks increase, but I wouldn't say that someone is necessarily overweight just because their BMI is over 25.

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Re: different body sizes (was Loren 2 colored camp thread)

Post by kadakithis » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:28 pm

Agreed. Sorry I was go e for so long.

Yes, but the issue is also heavily muscled like body builders is really unhealthy. Look up Gold medalists for gymnastics, or Micheal Phelps Who is definitely well built but not abs upon abs built. Look at Famous soccer stars who won world championships. They are usually built, but rarely if ever on the equivelent of body builders. Heck even olympic grade hammer throwers would be considered obese by outside lookers.

I don't mean that people overweight can go toe to toe with olympic medalists, but body builders aren't the healthiest lot. Honestly, truly, body building is just not good for the body, and someone who gets up and moves and excersizes regularly but is overweight is probably going to be better off than people who body build. It is killer on the body with the routines.

Often if someone is muscular and thin it = healthy in general conciousness, while even if someone excersizes regularly and is fairly fit overweight = unhealthy no matter how many tests say otherwise.

And that is a really deadly mindset. It kills bodybuilders who view being overweight as the worst thing imaginable, while also makes most people unable to see a friend or family member is killing themselves, and shames healthy people with great habits who may not look like poster perfect health.

So instead of telling the overweight person they are healthy (which they are on all counts except BMI) and the Body Builder that they are unhealthy (which they often are by all counts except BMI) we say the opposite and lead to a bad condition in both. Often the talk over health and fatness has relatively little to do with health at all and is mostly vanity.

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jack1974
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Re: different body sizes (was Loren 2 colored camp thread)

Post by jack1974 » Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:53 pm

I just saw this and thought is relevant :lol:

last fight is super impressive, a huge muscular black man, KOed by the fat man! :o

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Re: different body sizes (was Loren 2 colored camp thread)

Post by kadakithis » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:57 am

Definitely! You can see the muscle under there sometimes when he moves, but really our whole view of fat and healthy are weirdly mixed.

These ladies even look like the picture we originally talked about and they won medals.

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Re: different body sizes (was Loren 2 colored camp thread)

Post by Jaeger » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:07 pm

High level sports is more about performance than long-term health. Although fat will be gained through bulking up, a bad diet will accelerate the fat growth. It's muscles that help with the lifting, not the fat. Super heavy weightlifters don't have a limit in body weight, so they can get away with excess fat as long as they continue to lift heavier and their mobility isn't compromised. Weightlifters of lighter divisions need to stay within their weight range, and they are usually not that fat.

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