Blackguards

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jack1974
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Blackguards

Post by jack1974 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:52 pm

I got it in a Humble Bundle so decided to try it... well, now I understand why using a hit/miss system in RPG combat is the worst idea ever.
Really, that game is really great, using environment cleverly to defeat enemies, etc... yet that thing ruins the game experience completely for me. I've been ragequitting the game several times :mrgreen: I mean, seriously... hit chance 65%-75%, and misses SIX TIMES IN A ROW ?? I know that in theory is possible, but this system encourages reloading the battles multiple times to "get a better roll" :roll: :roll: :roll:
I don't have much patience playing (also because I don't have time... so for me replaying the same battle 1500 times is not fun). But in any case, I swear I'll never do such a game system in my games again! (was present in the first Planet Stronghold only).

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iWeasle
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Re: Blackguards

Post by iWeasle » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:01 pm

I agree and disagree with you, the hit or miss system can be very infuriating at times, but sometimes it works out. This isn't so much in JRPG's but in games like Shadowrun: Returns, or XCOM: Enemy Unknown. I still yell at my runner when they miss a 70% shot 3 times in a row but I just push ahead. Granted Shadowrun and XCOM both also have blocks to prevent the reloading strategy.

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jack1974
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Re: Blackguards

Post by jack1974 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:09 pm

I think would be much better to still inflict some damage. Like:
full hit = 6-8dmg
miss/dodge = 1-2dmg

1-2 is small, but is not NOTHING and in the long run would prevent people from ragequitting or reloading :mrgreen: my 2 cents of course!

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Franka
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Re: Blackguards

Post by Franka » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:39 pm

I can't bring myself to finish this game, it's just so insufferably boring. After a while, I went ahead and cheated and gave myself all skills at max level so I wouldn't have to deal AS MUCH with the combat, but I still kept missing all the time. Of course, once you reduce the difficulty of combat, there's really nothing of any interest left in the game.

Troyen
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Re: Blackguards

Post by Troyen » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:56 am

jack1974 wrote:I got it in a Humble Bundle so decided to try it... well, now I understand why using a hit/miss system in RPG combat is the worst idea ever.
Really, that game is really great, using environment cleverly to defeat enemies, etc... yet that thing ruins the game experience completely for me. I've been ragequitting the game several times :mrgreen: I mean, seriously... hit chance 65%-75%, and misses SIX TIMES IN A ROW ?? I know that in theory is possible, but this system encourages reloading the battles multiple times to "get a better roll" :roll: :roll: :roll:
I don't have much patience playing (also because I don't have time... so for me replaying the same battle 1500 times is not fun). But in any case, I swear I'll never do such a game system in my games again! (was present in the first Planet Stronghold only).
That's what I've been arguing ever since Planet Stronghold (psionic attacks and their 53% hit rate)! It's less of an issue these days, but still happens in SotW with "dodged" (I mentioned I started saving/reloading mid-battle every time someone missed a critical attack on Deceit/Act 4 bosses) and a little bit with resistances (though those are better than Loren 1).

One direction I know Blizzard has been taking is to keep the % randomness in there to keep the game feeling different, but they also curve it to avoid the really unlucky streaks. Haven't gotten a legendary in the few hours? Well, the chance to get one goes up until it drops. Did you fail to proc hot streak with fireball? Have a stacking +5% crit chance with fireball until you crit. The idea is getting really lucky feels awesome and great, but being terribly unlucky just makes you want to throw something and quit the game (Riley's quest!).

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jack1974
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Re: Blackguards

Post by jack1974 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:37 am

Yes OK in SOTW there is but the chances of blocking/dodging are VERY SMALL, and happens only in extreme conditions, like attacker = 10 attack and defender = 50 defense (I don't remember exact numbers but were really high). And even in that case, chances to fail are like 5%. AND, if you use a specal attack, the higher the cost, the less is the chance to fail :wink: In Blackguards for example you have 10-15% chances to fail NORMALLY :)
But yeah definitely that system is a big PITA and I really think is better to avoid it (I like Blizzard's approach though).

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Re: Blackguards

Post by Troyen » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:04 am

You should try playing act 4 on nightmare where every boss has 200+ defense and the best gear gives you like 80 attack. ;)

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jack1974
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Re: Blackguards

Post by jack1974 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:18 am

OK, but Nightmare translated means: "that game mode that will break your balls, make you pull your hairs until you're bald and where your characters will die often" :lol:
So in that case is OK. In Blackguard happens in Easy mode, the first battles :shock:

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fabulaparva
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Re: Blackguards

Post by fabulaparva » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:56 am

From my experience, SOTW even in NM-mode is really reasonable with the dodges. Only Jariel gave some headache, because his best uses are not in high attack-builds and still due to his class you'll may want to use him for potion throwing once in a while. And yes, dodging experience is really a different story depending on which non-receiving side you are on. I have previously played a very high-dodge class in an online PvP. And I've met classes there that have high dodge-chance against some of my attacks. Yes, I have cursed at my computer screen a couple of times, but I don't type it to the other player. Unfortunately, that's not what everybody does and I've gotten certain derogatory terms flung at me several times because my dodge/block-build class happened to avoid their "superawesome" hit.

Dodge-ability is tricky to balance so that it won't turn infuriating to fight against but still remains useful to the player to put points into it. I tend to think that it's best limited to certain attacks, not that you can dodge everyone and their mother coming at ya.

rooke30
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Re: Blackguards

Post by rooke30 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:33 pm

I'd be INCREDIBLY annoyed if Blackguards took out dodging. It's a different sort of game for different sort of folk and eliminating dodging because it's not fun will dilute the tactical nature of the combat.

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