Resource management

[Anima_]

What I just replied!!! besides, I hate the dentist

Well I did say getting a straight answer, not getting an answer.

I'll quote the writer on SOTW: the main theme is DECEIT. Enough said, will be clear later in the game. But I might add also survival: first in the cold lands of Ninim, then as slaves in the arena, then - beep spoilers! -. Sorry can't say more than that

You're right. Now I know how I actually should be asking these questions. Silly me.

Out of the cold I see two ways how Deceit could be used in a battle system. One is to have the interface lie to you from time to time. The other would be a system like PS2 where actions have executions times and you could have an option to mask one action as another. The first would have been possible with the current framework, but I'm not sure if it would be any fun and it doesn't have much impact either.

@yayswords

• That doesn't follow. The question is not about the amount of planning. The question is more or less if the difficulty comes from the encounter or from the series of encounters before and after.
• Nah that's obviously a difficulty question. At easier difficulties you can just throw around your bag of tricks. Hardcore player have to carefully consider when to use one of their tricks.
• That's not an answer to the question though. It just assigns different answers to the difficulty levels. And therefore probably different resource systems.
• Definitely not. That would dictate play style far too much. For a new game I might consider something like that, but definitely not for Loren. That will be reserved as an alternate victory/defeat condition. Creating a game in that style is a serious amount of work, since every encounter needs to be an unique finely tuned puzzle.

[yayswords]

1) If it's not the series, then what is it? Is every encounter gonna be difficult? What's a bossfight?
4) I meant as an alternate condition. Canyoudoitatall.

[Anima_]

1) If it's not the series, then what is it? Is every encounter gonna be difficult? What's a bossfight?

You worst nightmare of course.
There are pretty much two major schools when it comes to encounter design. The first uses a lot of mooks to cause attrition damage and the hammers you with the boss fight. The problem with the mooks is not killing them, but preserving your resources for the big fight. For dungeon crawlers that's their lifeblood.
The other school tries to challenge you with every encounter. All of them are meant to kill you, not deplete your resources. They usually require most of your resources to defeat. But that's the point, since you get those resources back after the fight. The challenge is self contained.
Now there's a third school, championed by Atlus, where every encounter is hell bent on killing you and if it fails to at least soften you up for the next. It's more or less just a variant of the first, just way harder.

A boss fight shouldn't be just harder than a normal encounter, it should be different. Adding some neat bells and whistles that work very well for an one time encounter and require you to rethink.

4) I meant as an alternate condition. Canyoudoitatall.

Yes we can.

[renke_]

what about using breaks as condition for regenerating mana (stamina is already fitting to this approach, and you could rename spell points to concentration) - one turn without getting damaged: mana + 10 (or whatever), one turn without action (I think of the Defend action): mana + 15.

[Anima_]

what about using breaks as condition for regenerating mana (stamina is already fitting to this approach, and you could rename spell points to concentration) - one turn without getting damaged: mana + 10 (or whatever), one turn without action (I think of the Defend action): mana + 15.

It would need to be variable since turn lengths aren't fixed, but definitely possible. Though I find the first idea more interesting then the second, which amount pretty much to "I do nothing so I can do something cool next turn"

What we're probably doing if we go with a SP pool and if no one has a better idea, is to use a broad trigger based system. Every character can choose from a collection of recovery triggers one for the encounter. Things like Bloodlust:Regain SP when you kill an enemy, Rage:Regain SP when an ally was killed, Phoenix:Regain SP when you revive an ally, Pride:Regain SP when a character you protect kills an enemy, and so on...

[renke_]

It would need to be variable since turn lengths aren't fixed, but definitely possible.

ah yes, the famous new turn system :) replace "one turn" with "10 time ticks" then :P

Though I find the first idea more interesting then the second, which amount pretty much to "I do nothing so I can do something cool next turn"

when a resource pool is used the players should have a method to manage it without the need to worship the RNG God. but I surely didn't think about the consequences of my idea :) one way to deal with your point would be a reversal of my original lazy idea: An manually triggered break (defend, wait, ...) gives the char a small but guaranteed amount of SP*, the more unsure way (no damage over an amount of time) regenerates more but needs luck or preperation (like getting a backrow char under guard).

*) I'm with yaysword's requirement 5

[Anima_]

ah yes, the famous new turn system replace "one turn" with "10 time ticks" then

Nothing new about it, turn length isn't fixed in the current system either.

when a resource pool is used the players should have a method to manage it without the need to worship the RNG God. but I surely didn't think about the consequences of my idea one way to deal with your point would be a reversal of my original lazy idea: An manually triggered break (defend, wait, ...) gives the char a small but guaranteed amount of SP*, the more unsure way (no damage over an amount of time) regenerates more but needs luck or preperation (like getting a backrow char under guard).

*) I'm with yaysword's requirement 5

That mechanic will definitely make you really really hate area type attackers though. On the other hand without area attacks a lot of character will regenerate all the time.

[renke_]

what about dropping a mana pool altogether and only use the cool-down period Jack mentions quite often?

as a different PoV: I do you some skills constantly, like Pull to reorganize the battle field or Cripple and Eagle's Grace to correct the movement order. cool down would change my play style considerably (not essentially a bad thing, though...) - as all skills are more or less unique a longish time without access to some of them could result in players' frustration :)

[renke_]

Nothing new about it, turn length isn't fixed in the current system either.

we need a glossary...

Turn: The variable amount of time between two actions of a given (N)PC [only valid for RPGs <= SotW]

That mechanic will definitely make you really really hate area type attackers though.

So what? This should never be the only way to refill the pool, in SotW we have multiple methods for regenerating (potions, SPregen items, skills, traits [okay, one trait, for up to one of the twins]).

On the other hand without area attacks a lot of character will regenerate all the time.

a valid issue. what about a logic that prevents free & automatic regeneration above the level before the battle? Say your char has 100 SP max and currently 75 - the no damage refill thingy will only work up to 75 SP, if one wants to leave the fight with a net gain the char has to actively manage the pool (skill, rest action, potion)

[Anima_]

we need a glossary...

Turn: The variable amount of time between two actions of a given (N)PC [only valid for RPGs <= SotW]

The new design document will come with a glossary file. Though that would be turn length. A turn would every time the character can execute an action.

So what? This should never be the only way to refill the pool, in SotW we have multiple methods for regenerating (potions, SPregen items, skills, traits [okay, one trait, for up to one of the twins]).

Just an observation, not a criticism. It makes area attacks more dangerous/annoying, even if they don't deal much damage.

a valid issue. what about a logic that prevents free & automatic regeneration above the level before the battle? Say your char has 100 SP max and currently 75 - the no damage refill thingy will only work up to 75 SP, if one wants to leave the fight with a net gain the char has to actively manage the pool (skill, rest action, potion)

That would only have an effect if you don't heal up after an encounter. If you do, you can spend the time with the last victim doing the recovery action and on most characters profiting from the auto recovery. Either way it's not fixing anything.