wrong perception when making too many games

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Jaeger
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Re: wrong perception when making too many games

Post by Jaeger » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:18 pm

jack1974 wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:50 pm
For each game I made, I can find a review (on Steam or mobile) which says both:
- it's the best game I ever made (in some cases the best VN in general)
- it's the worst game I ever made (in some cases, worst game in general).
:lol:
a product's success in practice is if most people like it, for a reason or another. I read a review of Never Forget Me in which they liked the story etc, but because I reused the characters of the first game, was a thumb down. I reused many characters even in Heileen 2-3 and nobody said anything.
So it depends all on each specific invidual's preferences.
Complaining about returning characters is really strange to me when it's a common thing in video games, especially those part of a long-running series.
Last edited by Jaeger on Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jack1974
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Re: wrong perception when making too many games

Post by jack1974 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:00 pm

Some people are obsessed with "reusing art". I mean OK I can see why that might seem "cheap"; but if the characters are the same, and only a few years have passed... what should I do, transform them into aliens? :lol:

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Re: wrong perception when making too many games

Post by fleetp » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:44 pm

jack1974 wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:00 pm
Some people are obsessed with "reusing art". I mean OK I can see why that might seem "cheap"; but if the characters are the same, and only a few years have passed... what should I do, transform them into aliens? :lol:
I recommend ignoring those people.
Why? I like big ones, that's why.

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mastro
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Re: wrong perception when making too many games

Post by mastro » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:15 am

Yes.
I think you're exaggerating jack, with your "openess". I follow a few indie devs, and except for the game they're currently working on, there's nothing told. No other information. You, being too open, expose yourself to badmouthing/unneeded pressure from "fans".
I read your latest blog post and I agree that never revealing a game until it's done is the best move in future. I personally don't care to know you're working on 8 titles. It's worse instead because it means I know for sure I'll need to wait long time before they're done.
I suppose also for writer is bad. I can't imagine someone happy to write knowing people are pressuring them to finish the story quickly.

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jack1974
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Re: wrong perception when making too many games

Post by jack1974 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:20 am

Don't worry, I have learned my lesson. I might really cancel some minor games to eliminate the constant nagging I get from people. We'll see. But I see many other devs who do maybe a blog a year, or aren't so active. Doesn't mean they ignore their fanbase, simply are too busy making games. And I am busy too :lol: I just wanted to be polite but it's being hard recently, also thanks to the big indie crisis and other personal issues.

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Jaeger
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Re: wrong perception when making too many games

Post by Jaeger » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:48 pm

If you need more time allocated to work on the actual game or just relax, that's understandable.

Conversely, long periods of radio silence can make people anxious and eventually lose interest. Every once in a while, you need to remind people that you are still making games. Your games are not crowd-funded, so there is more leeway on that matter.
Last edited by Jaeger on Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jack1974
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Re: wrong perception when making too many games

Post by jack1974 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:59 pm

Of course, that's why I have the blog (even only every 2 weeks it's often enough) and I post updates on twitter almost daily.

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mastro
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Re: wrong perception when making too many games

Post by mastro » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:51 am

I saw on twitter you write 15k words this month.
Why haven't you done the same with other games? Perhaps it wasn't that vocal minority the issue? the stuff you mention in the latest blog post?
Even if your writing abilities were not excellent, I really enjoyed the first games you put out. I am not alone, reading between teh lines of the steam reviews - several people saying that your older games had better writing.
Now I'm not sure if is better writing or just better "ideas" but anyway I was happy about that result (have to say I never buy your game fullprice though). If you kept writing the games yourself you have finished Loren 2 already, no?

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jack1974
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Re: wrong perception when making too many games

Post by jack1974 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:25 am

It's no secret I never had problems writing. It's enough to see the length of some of my forums replies, lol.
Maybe you're right, in the past I did some not great games and the critics really hurt me. Then I understood that you'll always find someone who says that your art sucks, your writing sucks, etc. I've seen it happening even to other famous indie friends doing VNs. People much more successful than me.
So yes probably I should have ignored them and kept writing my games, but the thing is that it's easy to say what was the right thing to do in hindsight :)
And there are a lot of things going on behind the scenes like I always say. I cannot post everything happening (for legal/privacy reasons). Not necessarily because a game was delayed or even canceled means it's someone's fault. Sometimes shit just happens. There are a lot of things that can happen, health problems, family issues, daily jobs issues, etc etc.
I think I was lucky in certain cases, not just in finding a good/reliable writer but also that in that specific moment he/she was able to work fast, and did a great job. In general though if I want to be sure to finish a game in a certain timeframe the only way is to write it myself and use a good editor. Well I'm repeating the same things I said already in the blog, so I'll stop here. Have more writing to do for my games :lol:

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Re: wrong perception when making too many games

Post by Troyen » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:20 pm

Well, don't forget that at 15k words/month you're still looking at over a year just to write one of your average game-length stories. So it made sense that if you wanted to make more games you'd try to hire more writers. But production at scale can be a problem for even bigger companies.

Tbh, I thought the writing in Loren and PS1 was fine. It may have needed some editing and polish, but I believe you have a good editor now to handle that.

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