State of the industry :)

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jack1974
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Re: State of the industry :)

Post by jack1974 » Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:55 am

Thanks for the suggestions for other card games, they seem interesting :)
Darkwolf: yes I know about that, and it's indeed one of the main reasons why everyone making OELVNs is now having a much hard time, there's no way you can compete with those japanese VNs!
That's also why I made those blog post explaining what could happen in future. Making "pure VNs" right now it's definitely not a smart business move. That's why I'm making RPG/card games and in future other genres. I will keep making dating sims, but I also need to focus on other game types. They might still include a story but need to be something different from the japanese VNs.

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Callista
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Re: State of the industry :)

Post by Callista » Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:09 am

Yeah, I'd have to agree as well that it's difficult for OELVNs to compete with Japanese VNs. I take equal interest in all VNs although I'm quite selective in which ones I'd want to play. There are certain ones that I'll never play (like the Sakura series *shudders*) and for me, it'll be a game if it's only about pretty artwork but bad or no story.

I do agree with all of the above posts about how difficult it is to keep up with the competition. Fortunately, I was able to get C14 Dating due to my most wonderful special someone. But I have been keeping up with Japanese VNs as well. I got Danganronpa 2 earlier this month and I'm totally looking forward to OZMAFIA this week. ^^
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jack1974
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Re: State of the industry :)

Post by jack1974 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:19 am

The sad thing is that it seems that doing "normal" VN is not worth it anymore. The only games popular on Steam are those with sexy contents. People expect them to have it, and to be cheap. I am not sure, but I think doing my "usual VNs" is not viable anymore :( When I think also how other top-quality VNs are doing (like Moacube's latest game)... it's clear that "something changed".
Once I finish all the games in production this year I'll know better, but I think I'm not wrong. I'll still do dating sims but "pure VNs" are definitely out of question from now on.
Of course RPGs or other games mixed with story are still fine :)

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DarkWolf
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Re: State of the industry :)

Post by DarkWolf » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:11 am

jack1974 wrote:The sad thing is that it seems that doing "normal" VN is not worth it anymore. The only games popular on Steam are those with sexy contents. People expect them to have it, and to be cheap. I am not sure, but I think doing my "usual VNs" is not viable anymore :( When I think also how other top-quality VNs are doing (like Moacube's latest game)... it's clear that "something changed".
Once I finish all the games in production this year I'll know better, but I think I'm not wrong. I'll still do dating sims but "pure VNs" are definitely out of question from now on.
Of course RPGs or other games mixed with story are still fine :)
Sad but true. Western VN fanbase has from beginning been divided in 3 groups, one of fans who are completely against sexy stuff, one that doesn't mind sexy stuff but don't care about it that much and last one that is only in VNs for sexy stuff, in beginning 3 groups had about equal number of fans but lately last one is most on the rise while first one is by far the smallest group.

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Callista
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Re: State of the industry :)

Post by Callista » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:41 am

DarkWolf wrote:
jack1974 wrote:The sad thing is that it seems that doing "normal" VN is not worth it anymore. The only games popular on Steam are those with sexy contents. People expect them to have it, and to be cheap. I am not sure, but I think doing my "usual VNs" is not viable anymore :( When I think also how other top-quality VNs are doing (like Moacube's latest game)... it's clear that "something changed".
Once I finish all the games in production this year I'll know better, but I think I'm not wrong. I'll still do dating sims but "pure VNs" are definitely out of question from now on.
Of course RPGs or other games mixed with story are still fine :)
Sad but true. Western VN fanbase has from beginning been divided in 3 groups, one of fans who are completely against sexy stuff, one that doesn't mind sexy stuff but don't care about it that much and last one that is only in VNs for sexy stuff, in beginning 3 groups had about equal number of fans but lately last one is most on the rise while first one is by far the smallest group.
Yeah, I think this is kind of sad, actually. I'm not that against sexy stuff but if it's just for the sake of it being there...

I suppose it depends on how one would choose to look at what tends to sell well on Steam. I think that if you want to do well financially on Steam (possibly go away from your loyal fanbase in the process), then sexy stuff is the way to go. I might be wrong but it seems that more guys would tend to go for that kind of thing.

I'd say more but I'm sure I'd get criticized harshly so I'll stop here. ;)
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jack1974
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Re: State of the industry :)

Post by jack1974 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:11 am

I think I should be able to keep making "all groups happy" by doing games like Loren or SOTW.
1) with OPTIONAL sexy content (so people can play how they want)
2) with gameplay, so should feel less the competition of the japanese VNs
3) tied to my own game universe
of course, doing those kind of games is the hardest part :mrgreen:

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IotaOne
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Re: State of the industry :)

Post by IotaOne » Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:42 am

While i am pro sexy stuff in general, i think this is the wrong conclusion. Adding more sexy content wont let you stand out. It would be more trying to catch up an oversatisfied trend. The RPG mix approach is far better, because it is really hard to find an Indy RPG, which is not a RPG maker look alike.
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jack1974
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Re: State of the industry :)

Post by jack1974 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:55 am

I agree, the problem is that doing a good RPG takes much more time and resources :) but for normal VN or dating sim without many gameplay mechanics, I think the sexy ones (at least on Steam) are more popular. Of course except the big translated japanese VN.

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Re: State of the industry :)

Post by rooke30 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:27 pm

I should chime in to say that while I bought Loren, I didn't buy the game for 'the boobs.' And while I enjoyed Loren more than SOTW, it also wasn't because of 'the boobs.'

Loren was just more entertaining, had quirkier characters, and played to its strengths more. SOTW tried to be a more serious RPG, however the Ren'Py engine (and variants based on the Ren'Py engine) don't favour combat mechanics. So the increase in emphasis in RPG mechanics on an engine which doesn't favour RPG mechanics was a bit of a negative. The characters and plot in SOTW just wasn't as fun, and it had a severe pacing problem in the latter part of the game. Loren also had a 'Dragon Age' vibe which could also lend to its popularity.
IotaOne wrote:The RPG mix approach is far better, because it is really hard to find an Indy RPG, which is not a RPG maker look alike.
Avadon 1/2, Avernum 1 - 6, Eschalon 1 - 3, ShadowRun/Dragonfall/Hong-Kong, Divinity OS, Age of Decadence, Underrail, Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland 2, Darkest Dungeon, Geneforge, Serpent in the Staglands, Lords of Xulima etc

The Indie RPG realm has been revitalised in the past few years driven by unprecedented demand for old style, isometric games. It's been a good few years :3

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jack1974
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Re: State of the industry :)

Post by jack1974 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:42 pm

rooke30 wrote:Loren was just more entertaining, had quirkier characters, and played to its strengths more. SOTW tried to be a more serious RPG, however the Ren'Py engine (and variants based on the Ren'Py engine) don't favour combat mechanics. So the increase in emphasis in RPG mechanics on an engine which doesn't favour RPG mechanics was a bit of a negative. The characters and plot in SOTW just wasn't as fun, and it had a severe pacing problem in the latter part of the game. Loren also had a 'Dragon Age' vibe which could also lend to its popularity.
I don't understand this. If you say that SOTW main problem was on writing/plot, OK. But saying that is because of the engine, I don't think so.
Unless you played them on mobile (in which Ren'Py still has serious speed issues) it's completely possible to do games like Avadon, Eschalon, Darkest Dungeon etc. with it. The fact that nobody did, is because usually people doing those games don't use Ren'Py :lol:
As for myself the main reason is the resource costs, doing a tilemap with animated enemies/characters would be insanely expensive (and also probably take months just that).
In some other thread I mentioned that if the game setting would have only a few enemy variants like Banner Saga 1, then could be possible to do an isometric battle system in Ren'Py (there's already an open source engine but it's not optimized I think).

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