Bionic Heart 2 - version 1.0

A dark sci-fi visual novel: http://winterwolves.com/bionicheart.htm
Post Reply
User avatar
jack1974
Pack leader
Posts: 14398
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: Bionic Heart 2 - version 1.0

Post by jack1974 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:41 pm

Ketik: ah yes probably the electrocute fail doesn't return correctly, it should just go game over indeed, will check that.
About the fight is indeed hard to figure out, the solution is
Spoiler:
strong resistance, medium, light, then go limp and electrocute
To get Earth endings you need to fail Mars plot, and go on only with Tanya/Tina.

User avatar
Lonestar51
Elder Druid
Posts: 501
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:12 pm

Re: Bionic Heart 2 - version 1.0

Post by Lonestar51 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:47 am

The second boss battle against Julia is really horrible. Even in 1.0.1. I will try to describe it in a way which avoids spoilers.

What makes it so difficult are two things:
- just before the battle, the player gets a feedback that ... something ... needs 7minutes 43 seconds. Which may lead to the conclusion that the objective is to stall until ... something
- In other boss fights, I get a feedback for correct answers. Usually if I need to give a certain answer at a certain stage, the boss would answer "does not impress me" if the wrong answer and something along the lines of "need to consider" if I get forward. So if I see that after X the response to Y is changed, I know I am on the right track. In this fight I get the first noticeable difference after four correct choices.

Thanks to the spoiler from Jack it is possible, but what people do who do not read forum... I do not know.
To get Earth endings you need to fail Mars plot, and go on only with Tanya/Tina.
Hmm, I get Mars ending and Earth ending as well if I get combined ending. (I have not yet found everything, and I am not sure it is always the part, but at least for some...)

User avatar
jack1974
Pack leader
Posts: 14398
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: Bionic Heart 2 - version 1.0

Post by jack1974 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:58 am

Well, originally I wanted to give more advice, but I am not sure how to do that without making it too simple...I added more feedback though, like "Tanya show weak resistance" etc. But if is still too hard to figure out, what do you suggest to do that doesn't give the solution completely away (because otherwise could be too easy) ?
For the combined endings you can get the other endings too, is normal.

Taleweaver
Official writer
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:38 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Bionic Heart 2 - version 1.0

Post by Taleweaver » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:23 am

Lonestar51 wrote:What makes it so difficult are two things:
- just before the battle, the player gets a feedback that ... something ... needs 7minutes 43 seconds. Which may lead to the conclusion that the objective is to stall until ... something
The objective is to hold out long enough. The problem, however, is that Tanya's structural integrity doesn't last for seven minutes of Tina tearing at her. This is why there is a "Structural integrity" meter. You're supposed to notice that this fight is different from the others, being a physical and not a social confrontation. And if you listen to Tina's feedback, she will note that Tanya seems to be getting weaker. If you go limp early, she will even say that she doesn't believe she is dead already - the point is to realize that you have to make her believe that. It's essentially a puzzle.
- In other boss fights, I get a feedback for correct answers. Usually if I need to give a certain answer at a certain stage, the boss would answer "does not impress me" if the wrong answer and something along the lines of "need to consider" if I get forward. So if I see that after X the response to Y is changed, I know I am on the right track. In this fight I get the first noticeable difference after four correct choices.
As I said: you're supposed to notice that this fight is different :)

User avatar
Lonestar51
Elder Druid
Posts: 501
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:12 pm

Re: Bionic Heart 2 - version 1.0

Post by Lonestar51 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:44 am

jack1974 wrote:But if is still too hard to figure out, what do you suggest to do that doesn't give the solution completely away (because otherwise could be too easy) ?
Taleweaver wrote:The objective is to hold out long enough. The problem, however, is that Tanya's structural integrity doesn't last for seven minutes of Tina tearing at her.
One thing which would make it easier is if it would be made more clear that just surviving long enough is not an option. However, the structureal meter combined with the knowledge what is a few meters and minutes away made me go the wrong track. Tried taking minimum damage, which will not win this fight. Suggestion: Add some line like: "7 min until ... but I will not last that long. I need to get rid of Julia, ... fast"
jack1974 wrote:I added more feedback though, like "Tanya show weak resistance" etc.
Taleweaver wrote:And if you listen to Tina's feedback, she will note that Tanya seems to be getting weaker.
Hmm, I will actually have to replay this one. Julia taunts every time Tanya makes a move, mostly variations of "you are so weak". I checked for changes in the taunts, but maybe I have not been paying attention enough to see a difference between "you are so weak" and "now you are even weaker".

Taleweaver
Official writer
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:38 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Bionic Heart 2 - version 1.0

Post by Taleweaver » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:28 pm

Lonestar51 wrote:One thing which would make it easier is if it would be made more clear that just surviving long enough is not an option. However, the structureal meter combined with the knowledge what is a few meters and minutes away made me go the wrong track. Tried taking minimum damage, which will not win this fight. Suggestion: Add some line like: "7 min until ... but I will not last that long. I need to get rid of Julia, ... fast"
Sounds like an option, though that could make players try to find the "strong resistance" actions and then only go for them (which won't work).

I consider Tina a puzzle boss, so too many hints would probably spoil the experience.

P_Tigras
Druid
Posts: 411
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:58 pm

Re: Bionic Heart 2 - version 1.0

Post by P_Tigras » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:08 pm

Taleweaver wrote:
Lonestar51 wrote:One thing which would make it easier is if it would be made more clear that just surviving long enough is not an option. However, the structureal meter combined with the knowledge what is a few meters and minutes away made me go the wrong track. Tried taking minimum damage, which will not win this fight. Suggestion: Add some line like: "7 min until ... but I will not last that long. I need to get rid of Julia, ... fast"
Sounds like an option, though that could make players try to find the "strong resistance" actions and then only go for them (which won't work).

I consider Tina a puzzle boss, so too many hints would probably spoil the experience.
Those strong/moderate/weak resistance messages are significant, but that's not immediately obvious, especially when you're thinking in terms of stalling until the brain is fully loaded into the behemoth. And yet, stalling has nothing to do with the correct strategy in that fight. I will admit that I was stumped on my first play-through until I read Jack's big fat hint on ordering the resistance messages.

User avatar
Lonestar51
Elder Druid
Posts: 501
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:12 pm

Re: Bionic Heart 2 - version 1.0

Post by Lonestar51 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:46 pm

Taleweaver wrote:
Lonestar51 wrote:Suggestion: Add some line like: "7 min until ... but I will not last that long. I need to get rid of Julia, ... fast"
Sounds like an option, though that could make players try to find the "strong resistance" actions and then only go for them (which won't work).

I consider Tina a puzzle boss, so too many hints would probably spoil the experience.
Ahem... Julia ;-)

Well, I tried to go the "strong resistance" route. That's why I suggested the line above, in the hope the next player would think of a different/correct solution instead.
P_Tigras wrote: I will admit that I was stumped on my first play-through until I read Jack's big fat hint on ordering the resistance messages.
The hint was in the forum? (just to be clear...)

Edit:
Hmm, I will actually have to replay this one. Julia taunts every time Tanya makes a move, mostly variations of "you are so weak". I checked for changes in the taunts, but maybe I have not been paying attention enough to see a difference between "you are so weak" and "now you are even weaker".
I just tried again: The taunts from Julia do not differ if the sequence is right or wrong. Only after "go limp" a reaction is visible.

User avatar
jack1974
Pack leader
Posts: 14398
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: Bionic Heart 2 - version 1.0

Post by jack1974 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:06 pm

Yes P_Tigras was referring to my hint in forums.
Will think of a way to hint/suggest something (but not the exact solution) to the player... mumble mumble

Foelhe
Young scout
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:23 pm

Re: Bionic Heart 2 - version 1.0

Post by Foelhe » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:32 am

Might want to point out in-game that you can't really beat Tina physically, so you have to trick her/out-think her? Seems like most people who had trouble with the puzzle were either treating it like a fight or trying to run out the clock, so if you remind people that it's still a game of wits, that might help.

Post Reply