skill ideas (was 'one skill, multiple abilities?')

Games with combat, inventory, crafting and more beside a story and dating/life sim gameplay
User avatar
jack1974
Pack leader
Posts: 15054
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: skill ideas (was 'one skill, multiple abilities?')

Post by jack1974 »

renke_ wrote: Combat (especially the tactical kind in a turn-based game) should be transparent and understandable evene without code access, if the result of an action isn't foreseeable "players with ambitions" are [understandable] pissed off as they are not able to plan their moves (this worked really fine in Planet Stronghold).
That's the problem - in Planet Stronghold I simply used FIXED NUMBERS. That was basic, and easy to understand:
Energy weapon attack 5 - enemy energy armor 2 = 3 damage + add bonus of that character with that weapon type = final damage
that's it! Done. The way Loren was designed/coded, was impossible for me to use this system. I mean I had to rewrite the whole combat system to use this, and rebalance everything, so I was better starting a new game from scratch :lol: for SOTW (which remember was supposed to be A SMALL GAME to ease the way for Loren 2!) I had to use Loren system, and tried to improve it, but the base mechanics are those.

I think everything had to be better planned from the start, at the point I was I just kept patching and patching what I had done to improve it (and I think I did). Is not a fun situation to be in, but that's what happens very often during game dev: you have no time, you've pressure from people, money, time already invested and so on. Is not easy, really. Quite often I'm not happy with the result of my games, but then I wonder "what I do, polish the game for another 6 months and lose a ton of money?" :(

In summary: I'm doing the best I can really, but I am at one point where I am FORCED to make compromises to keep going. The best I can do is try to improve the combat part of the RPG step by step. OR, and that was my previous point, simply try with a simpler approach like I did with PS, and then build up from there. First NewRPG1 will have only 10 skills but everything crystal clear, then NewRPG2 will have 20 and new additions, and so on. I can't work over 1 year on a RPG, a bit for money reason but also because I know myself and I would get tired of it and in the end do a really bad job... those are my limits sadly, I don't have much patience :mrgreen:
renke_
Elder Druid
Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:26 pm

Re: skill ideas (was 'one skill, multiple abilities?')

Post by renke_ »

jack1974 wrote:but I am at one point where I am FORCED to make compromises to keep going.
we reached Calvin's defintion of a good compromise :P (I said it before, I will say it again: At some point it is paramount to remove crust, it's probably best for all that Loren 2 will get a new framework ^^).

And you're right: The quality of games is better nowadays, I don't think I will touch Loren 1 ever again after getting used to the battle improvements in SOTW.

----

Regarding the blog post: Less than 20 % of your time results in code actually used in a released product :)
User avatar
jack1974
Pack leader
Posts: 15054
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: skill ideas (was 'one skill, multiple abilities?')

Post by jack1974 »

renke_ wrote: And you're right: The quality of games is better nowadays, I don't think I will touch Loren 1 ever again after getting used to the battle improvements in SOTW.
Good, at least that's universally confirmed then! :lol:
renke_ wrote: Regarding the blog post: Less than 20 % of your time results in code actually used in a released product :)
Yes, a bit because I always need to do "something else" (since I manage everything myself) and also because I found out that long coding sessions for me result in very stupid bugs :mrgreen: I usually code early in the morning only and do other simpler tasks later during the day.
User avatar
yayswords
Elder Druid
Posts: 1436
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:34 am

Re: skill ideas (was 'one skill, multiple abilities?')

Post by yayswords »

Lack of transparency actually isn't so much my gripe with what we have right now. I mean, I have played Loren and SotW quite extensively, and I still don't know what kind of damage bonus I'm supposed to get from a crit lol, but it doesn't bother me that much. As long as more +magic always means more +damage I don't need to know the exact formula either.

However the resource management is antiquated, like 75% of my actions on a nightmare playthrough are basic attacks. A hunter with four skill points might look SOMEWHAT modern but no, I would not leave hunters untouched if I could turn back time and post about this before you implemented all those skills. It's just what I would have lobbied for if I had known, it's not REVAMP THIS OR I LEAVE. Might be fix for Loren 2 or I don't touch though :P

Like I said you'll never reach perfection, and Blizzard will never do it either, but reducing the impact of gear variance (for Loren 2 if not for SotW) is a step in that direction. I get your limited resources so I like to think I'm making the easy suggestions, rather than asking for you and Anima to have a 3 hour meeting comparing Leap Attack to Strike Through.

P.S. Best combat change since Loren is the guaranteed debuffs on druid nukes etc.
If at first try it doesn't explode, it ain't Jack who wrote the code.
User avatar
jack1974
Pack leader
Posts: 15054
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: skill ideas (was 'one skill, multiple abilities?')

Post by jack1974 »

I think the impact of gear variance is so noticeable, as said several times, because you play with only 3 characters in Act1. Please wait Act2 when you get a full party (when the impact of gear is less noticeable because you have 6 characters so is "amortized", unless you leave some with the basic outfit and another only with rare item, but why you would do that lol) and then we'll talk again :wink:
User avatar
yayswords
Elder Druid
Posts: 1436
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:34 am

Re: skill ideas (was 'one skill, multiple abilities?')

Post by yayswords »

When I say 30% power variance, I mean between a party that plays the casino and one that doesn't, I don't mean between the party's individual members depending on how lucky they are with normal no-reload shop visits. Although that could be true as well. I'm not sure how a party with across the board higher stats than another is going to have a similar challenge experience just because they both have 6 members instead of 3. But I am indeed waiting for act 2 before I give most of my points any serious pushing.

I might just do an easy difficulty playthrough with no reloading the shops and compare my end-season party stats with a nightmare party. Just need to make sure I don't spend too many attribute points and confuse myself :P then I could get a better figure of the impact of reload roulette than my gut instinct 30%.
If at first try it doesn't explode, it ain't Jack who wrote the code.
User avatar
jack1974
Pack leader
Posts: 15054
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: skill ideas (was 'one skill, multiple abilities?')

Post by jack1974 »

Yeah wait a bit please :) I honestly hadn't time to playtest Act2 too much myself (I'm spending all the time trying to finish it quickly) but I immediately noticed that when you have a full-party the strategy changes a lot, even the death of a party member doesn't have as much as an impact as in act1 (assuming you have a druid or some resurrect potions with you :wink:).
I fear might be too easy now, but once again you people will tell me if that's the case so I can fix :)
Post Reply