Of Shapeshifters and Necromancers

[Miakoda]

Just out of curiosity, seeing the diversification you've been doing in Seasons of the Wolf, would it be possible to include dedicated Shapeshifters and Necromancers as classes in future games?

For example, with the additional art assets you've procured, a player could choose between Giant Snake, Giant Scorpion (both shown by Chambara), Brown Bear, and Snow Tiger (as just an example).

If you develop further, you could also have a list of attribute enhancements such as you did with Mesphit's demon form.

For that matter, I would love to see more done with Necromancy as well (and yes, some of it is being a fan of Chambara as well). For example, if you make a system in place for summoning minions, maybe a Necromancer could summon a Skeleton/Zombie.

Of course, a suitable thematic expansion of death-motif magic would be awesome. One could almost imagine bone armor, supporting Chambara's magnificent...frame

[jack1974]

Yes is a good idea The current Loren framework doesn't support summoning, so that is a bit limiting. Even doing the shapeshift (ie with Mesphit) was quite a hack so not really something easily built in!
I am not sure what are Anima's plans for the next framework regarding this, but I believe should be much more powerful so I think should support those features well!

[Anima_]

I'm planning for shape shifting but not for (in battle) summoning. The later is of limited utility, at least in the western variant. A more eastern system would work better with Lorens system but isn't generally associated with Necromancy. An out of battle summoning system would make more sense for situations where the mages are alone. Probably something that reduces the maximum SP as long as it's summoned.

[Jaeger]

It depends on the way summoning is implemented, but I'm going to assume summoned creatures act as secondary party members instead of flashing on the screen like older Final Fantasy games. With the way Loren's combat system is designed, summoning wouldn't be viable when all character slots are occupied.

However, it can work well for a game where there is more in the way of positioning and movement.

[jack1974]

Yeah summoning would definitely work better if there was a sort of battlefield map, more than fixed party/enemy positions. Unfortunately not something we might implement in the next games, though for sure one of my long term goals is to have a Final Fantasy Tactics like battle system, rulez

[Anima_]

Replacing the party (maybe leave the summoner) would be another viable alternative.
But frankly I don't think it would be really worth it. Our story doesn't focus on summons or summoners. And summoning in the setting is mostly associated with ritual magic, not in combat spells.
That's why I'm partial to the idea of put of combat summoning. It'd be a better fit for the setting and it fills an important hole. Namely solo or duo quests with a caster PC.
Those could become quite difficult without a meatshield. While summons would be worse then regular party members, they'd always be available.

[yayswords]

If you look at Loren though, you couldn't really motivate having a summon for every personal quest. I would rather that the quest encounters were designed for the respective NPC's to shine (like Draco ABSOLUTELY DOESN'T against the last demon) than that the PC has to happen to have the right build to make up for their suck.

Or you could maybe let the player have some talisman at their disposal for these quests, can only be used once or twice (and I mean across ALL personal quests) and summons a creature with powers of the player's choosing, so you could have that up your sleeve when the pairing just really sucks.

[Miakoda]

No big deal if summoning is or isn't done. I mostly mentioned it as one possible way to further flavor certain classes.

One of the reasons I asked about a Shapeshifter class or Necromancer class was also due to story ideas. If given a chance, players definitely like having more personal agency in what path they go. I know I'm already looking forward to Seasons of the Wolf since it is actually going to have one more playable class than Loren 1 (A mage class on top of the warrior and thief analogues).

And I'm looking forward to Reign of War since it has at least one more class beyond that: Healer.

I certainly appreciate how some of the dialogues in Loren 1 were flavored based on the class, and I anticipate it will be similar in later games. Of course, you don't want to go too far with choices either (not to mention the poor writer's sanity ).

[Lonestar51]

Hmm, shapeshifting and summoning sound quite nifty in battle. However, I see one issue with it: WW-games are quite heavy on story and romances. And someone who can shapeshift would naturally attract questions regarding his abilities. In Loren the demonic possesion of Mesphit was a major plot point, for example.

This leads to two problems: A shapeshifter who has the ability "because cool" and for variety in combat moves will snag a lot of attention with the ability, hurting the story. And in case the ability can be chosen (like having three forms which you can choose for your char, and seven pets to summon) then the writing must be either carefully unspecific or made several times, to take account for all possibilities.

[Anima_]

@ yayswords
I'm not sure how you arrived at the idea that every quest would have it's own summon. The problem is simply the the combat system is built for teamwork. Which is kinda difficult without a team.

@ Miakoda
No need to apologize for a fairly rational request. We did plan for several shapeshifters even before you asked after all.

@ Lonestar51
Don't worry. We won't simply slap on extreme powers just because they're cool. The character who have these abilities are also characterized by them. Or rather the characters had those abilities even before they got in my clutches. We'll simply have them as in game abilities as well instead of simply as cutscene powers.