Learning Skills/Abilities/Spells in game

Games with combat, inventory, crafting and more beside a story and dating/life sim gameplay
User avatar
Miakoda
Elder Druid
Posts: 880
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:05 pm

Learning Skills/Abilities/Spells in game

Post by Miakoda »

I know I've said it before, but one thing I appreciate in your games (like your RPGs) is how you expand what you offer in game. Something relatively minor you may wish to do in a future game is have a way for to learn a Skill/Ability/Spell in game that wasn't necessarily available at character creation or simply leveling up.

Whether it is finding a dusty tome (for a spell) or being taught by an arena champion (maybe for a warrior), etc, I always like that feeling when my character discovers something that isn't necessarily on the direct path, but have to work for.
User avatar
jack1974
Pack leader
Posts: 15054
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: Learning Skills/Abilities/Spells in game

Post by jack1974 »

Yes skills/bonus stuff unlocked with quests could be an interesting addition indeed. Needs a bit more planning but I like it, will try to do that in future RPGs :)
renke_
Elder Druid
Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:26 pm

Re: Learning Skills/Abilities/Spells in game

Post by renke_ »

Miakoda wrote:have a way for to learn [..] Whether it is finding a dusty tome (for a spell)
I don't disagree - though I always loathed the "one-time-books", it is simply unbelievable and breaks imho the flow of the story. Sure, it is somehow explainable ("because Magic", "mystical unbreakable DRM"), but it feels wrong.

If the RPGs go this route please ensure coherent rationales (I like Miakoda's trainer example - not enough time to teach more than one character) or, in the case of scrolls/books, something like "written in an archaic script, only [insert names/class] are able to fully understand the deeper meaning".

But yes, special skills as quest rewards are generally a nice touch.
User avatar
Miakoda
Elder Druid
Posts: 880
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:05 pm

Re: Learning Skills/Abilities/Spells in game

Post by Miakoda »

renke_ wrote:I don't disagree - though I always loathed the "one-time-books", it is simply unbelievable and breaks imho the flow of the story. Sure, it is somehow explainable ("because Magic", "mystical unbreakable DRM"), but it feels wrong.
Oh, I will agree that this does get lazy. Heck, Baldur's Gate's books of [Insert Attribute] are certainly guilty of that.
If the RPGs go this route please ensure coherent rationales (I like Miakoda's trainer example - not enough time to teach more than one character) or, in the case of scrolls/books, something like "written in an archaic script, only [insert names/class] are able to fully understand the deeper meaning".
Definitely a lot of ways to implement it from a story perspective. Even with a trainer, there are a lot of ways it could be implemented. For example, if one has shaman, maybe they summon the ghost of the departed to give some last words. If there is a necromancer, maybe the person has to consume the remains of someone departed (the knowledge is down in the bone). Heck, if one has a druid, one could always says 'the earth remembers'.
jack1974 wrote:Yes skills/bonus stuff unlocked with quests could be an interesting addition indeed. Needs a bit more planning but I like it, will try to do that in future RPGs :)
Glad you like the idea. One of the things I always liked was personal agency as a player...and this is one of those things a person can do. You wouldn't have to do it to finish the game, but if you wish to, it is there.

This is one of the reasons I loved the personal quests in Loren. You didn't have to do them, but if one did, then it felt like they were getting closer to others in the party...and the item was also a nice reward.
User avatar
Lonestar51
Elder Druid
Posts: 504
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:12 pm

Re: Learning Skills/Abilities/Spells in game

Post by Lonestar51 »

Miakoda wrote:This is one of the reasons I loved the personal quests in Loren. You didn't have to do them, but if one did, then it felt like they were getting closer to others in the party...and the item was also a nice reward.
Well, technically, the quests were in the N'Mar expansion rather than the base game. But I agree with the point: The personal quests were what made the game a lot better than the original. Because they gave me the chance to decide what to do, except ticking off the boxes on the main quest. They did also give the characters a bit more depth, which is always good.

Anyway, I like the base idea in the first post:
Whether it is finding a dusty tome (for a spell) or being taught by an arena champion (maybe for a warrior), etc, I always like that feeling when my character discovers something that isn't necessarily on the direct path, but have to work for.
In the context of SOTW, this might give us some interesting decisions: There are only x days (actions/whatever) before the next plot event happens (like baddies invading), so how do you spend them? Seek out the wise man in the wood who teaches your mages spells? Seek out a sword trainer for your fighters? Do kill some sewer rats to get interestig loot? Decisions, decisions...
User avatar
jack1974
Pack leader
Posts: 15054
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: Learning Skills/Abilities/Spells in game

Post by jack1974 »

In SOTW the characters personal quests are "embedded" in the main story. If you're successful you get a nice item reward, otherwise the story goes on but you don't get it :)

In theory I could even add skills as reward in SOTW... if I had more time and could add more subquests. Also, there are 12 skills but since I'd like players to get up to level 30, if I go with the "one new skill every 2 levels" idea, at level 24 they would have already all the skills unlocked. So if I made 4 of them unlockable, there wouldn't be much choice.
I definitely want to try adding that in Loren 2 though, which should use a much better RPG framework, even with leveling skills and/or other systems so hidden/bonus reward for quests beside XP/Items can be done more easily! 8)
User avatar
Miakoda
Elder Druid
Posts: 880
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:05 pm

Re: Learning Skills/Abilities/Spells in game

Post by Miakoda »

Lonestar51 wrote:Well, technically, the quests were in the N'Mar expansion rather than the base game.
My mistake. I know one came after the other, but as you can tell, I pretty much figure the N'Mar expansion is integral to the game. :D
jack1974 wrote:In theory I could even add skills as reward in SOTW... if I had more time and could add more subquests.
Heh, we are aware how much planning and work goes into your games. I am sure most of us who make suggestions, if they do get used, realize it would be used in games further along :)
Last edited by Miakoda on Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
renke_
Elder Druid
Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:26 pm

Re: Learning Skills/Abilities/Spells in game

Post by renke_ »

Miakoda wrote:Oh, I will agree that this does get lazy. Heck, Baldur's Gate's books of [Insert Attribute] are certainly guilty of that.
it could be fun to avert this issue - e.g. a tome describing the lost melee technique Berserk's Blow. Every character can read the book (and learn the skill) except the barbarian because he's illiterate and too stubborn to ask his collegues.
User avatar
Lonestar51
Elder Druid
Posts: 504
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:12 pm

Re: Learning Skills/Abilities/Spells in game

Post by Lonestar51 »

jack1974 wrote:In theory I could even add skills as reward in SOTW... if I had more time and could add more subquests.
Ah well, should have phrased it more carefully. My bad. Of course you don't want to redo everything just for a neat little idea. I was just exploring how this might fit into a framework.
renke_ wrote:it could be fun to avert this issue - e.g. a tome describing the lost melee technique Berserk's Blow. Every character can read the book (and learn the skill) except the barbarian because he's illiterate and too stubborn to ask his collegues.
Now that is just plain evil :mrgreen: I like it. :twisted:
User avatar
jack1974
Pack leader
Posts: 15054
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: Learning Skills/Abilities/Spells in game

Post by jack1974 »

Lonestar51 wrote:
jack1974 wrote:In theory I could even add skills as reward in SOTW... if I had more time and could add more subquests.
Ah well, should have phrased it more carefully. My bad. Of course you don't want to redo everything just for a neat little idea. I was just exploring how this might fit into a framework.
No I shouldn't redo everything, that's why I thought about it for a moment. But is better if I finish as it is, since has already a lot of new features vs Loren's system, don't want to bite off more than I can chew (hope I wrote it correctly :lol:)
Post Reply