Grinding or not grinding... that's the question

Games with combat, inventory, crafting and more beside a story and dating/life sim gameplay
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peregrin
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Re: Grinding or not grinding... that's the question

Post by peregrin »

Hi,
About the difficulty, you stopped playing Loren for two months because you grinded too much? so you didn't finish the story? that is weird but interesting
:-) I'm chalking that one up to a sudden attack of OCD. I couldn't convince myself to proceed with the story until I had maxed out discounts in all towns, yet got bored by that. So other things took a priority in my scant spare time. I only returned to finish the story very recently.

-- peregrin
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Solvus
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Re: Grinding or not grinding... that's the question

Post by Solvus »

Anyone played Fire Emblem: Awakening? Leveling grinding in that game was great cuz you get to see support conversations when you pair them up to fight, Love the Game! :)
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Jaeger
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Re: Grinding or not grinding... that's the question

Post by Jaeger »

I only played a little bit of Fire Emblem, but I really enjoyed it. I want to get other games out of the way before I proceed further.

Grinding is more enjoyable when it gives players a meaningful reward for the time spent. Dark Souls purposefully gives little in the way in the way of grinding, it takes many levels before the benefits of stat gains are noticeable. Fallout 3 on the other hand, it's easy to get experience to level up, and perks are rewarded at every level.

I have been playing The Spirit Engine 2 on and off. The game imposes a level/experience cap at each chapter, thus you can never overwhelm your enemies by being at a substantially higher level. However, every time you defeat an enemy, you get points that can be used to respec your character if you don't like your current build.
Valorous_Roland
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Re: Grinding or not grinding... that's the question

Post by Valorous_Roland »

Actually, maybe if you do an Awakening route...

Sorry, this is old, I know, but that actually might be something to consider. If you want to have grinding in your games, make another benefit besides levels. FE:A (Awakening) uses conversations. Here, let me do an example using one of your games...
So, you know how in Loren you have cut-scenes if you have enough hearts with a character? An interesting twist would maybe have other units (certain pairs) have affection between each other. Maybe they could have their own cut-scenes.
So, here's an example. When you fight battles having both Mesphit and Rei in your team in Loren (I just use it as I'm most familiar with it), maybe you'd get a cut-scene that showed their relationship getting better. Maybe at 25 battles you'd get one, then at 50, then at 100. Apolimesho and Draco could also be a pair, and maybe others you don't see interacting much (like a random pair, say, Sauzer and Dora). I think that could make me think, instead of "Urgh, grinding..." to "Oh, I wonder what will happen next between X and Y!". It kinda makes grinding its own internal story. It would also be nice if we had some kind of counter on the character page (or maybe a hint to how long we have left until the next conversation, like "Rei and Mesphit are very distant"/"Rei and Mesphit are starting to talk"/"Rei and Mesphit are cooperating better in battles"...)

I dunno, that would make grinding appeal to me more. People who grind for gameplay get it, and people who just want plot... Get that too.

Just my thoughts on this. It give benefits to most all people and also give better looks at characters who aren't just you (like, you could see how Rei would act around a man opposed to how he flirts with Elenor... Maybe with Draco?). It also would make it more realistic to see not everyone only thinking about Elenor/Saren all the time. Earlier I said a pair like Sauzer and Dora, and seeing how both those characters are non-romancable, it gives you more about them (Dora: "What!? You don't get to keep anything as a monk!?" Sauzer: "Nope. I don't own anything. My entire life is Irijo." Dora: "But--! But--!"... Something like that.)
May be a bad idea, but I just thought I'd say it.
Last edited by Valorous_Roland on Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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MarSel
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Re: Grinding or not grinding... that's the question

Post by MarSel »

I like the idea but that would be a hell of a lot of coding considering there are six party members. Though if like you said only certain pairings got it it would encourage people to change party members to see who has a pairing. and when they have a full Affection with each other they get... Wait for it... Those that know me know what's coming... "A friendship ending!!" :lol:
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jack1974
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Re: Grinding or not grinding... that's the question

Post by jack1974 »

Thanks is an interesting idea, and as you said it would at least give the players a motivation to grind, beside getting more XP / loot :)
biscuit
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Re: Grinding or not grinding... that's the question

Post by biscuit »

Ooh, I really loved the Fire Emblem support system (which made sense tactically, as well...) and this seems like an interesting way to implement it in a more classic RPG! I approve this idea, though I realize it would also be more work for coding and writing!
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Elmsdor
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Re: Grinding or not grinding... that's the question

Post by Elmsdor »

Primary reason to grinding content : To Gate Content.

Quite often, the creator has designs to allow both game mechanics and storyline to interweave, which forces players to be geared/leveled at an appropriate level. I don't think many people can suspend belief enough to see either Lisa/Loren, take on the last boss with a peashooter or a stick.

Secondary reason (sometimes the most important) reason to grinding : To tell a Story or explore the Game Mechanics in place.

Self explanatory but don't we all want to watch our hero/ine blossom into a beacon from the shroud of obscurity? Not to mention all the aspects of an RPG and the myriad of gaming ideals ;)


Personally, I don't believe enemies should level at all. But grinding should be allowable to either allow easier access to content with time/equipment. Or to allow access to impossible content/self fulfilment. That is up to the creator's devices.

Anyone familiar with Fire Emblem will know that Apothesis requires 50+ hours of grinding to complete (with zero deaths).

I believe grinding also gives satisfaction as each minute is spent boosting your character/esteem, bit by bit

Cheers
Maelora
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Re: Grinding or not grinding... that's the question

Post by Maelora »

Ugh, I hate grinding personally.

It's a part of old JRPG style games that should just die in 2013.
Nightsnow
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Re: Grinding or not grinding... that's the question

Post by Nightsnow »

I have rarely played a game that justified grinding in its story. (i think there might have been one or two games with a mindtwist story, but...)

I have the same problem with it as I have with too many non related to the story side quests and that is, once we read the third act and/or the final part of the game why is the villain still willing to wait while the hero goes out to kill 40 rats and bring grandma her teeth back?

Now I can live with grinding being necessary on the nightmare/hardest difficulty because when I play that I more or less play to be brutally beaten untill I have mastered the game. I must admit that I have never felt any satisifaction by having spend way too many hours just to be overleveled.

That said I am rather curious of Jacks proposed system for Seasons of the Wolf.
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