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Board Index » Queen Of Thieves » Queen Of Thieves beta 0.6.5
jack1974 Jun 23, 2016
game info and pre-purchase: http://winterwolves.com/queenofthieves.htm

Current beta download: http://www.macgames.biz/games/QoT-0.6.5-all.zip



What's New in 0.6.5

- some gems on catacomb's level 7 weren't correctly added to the inventory (thanks to Franka for spotting this!)

- the honor reward item sets were wrongly assigned (shifted by 1) so choosing the "Nothing", you would get the "First Aid Set" and so on! Fixed :lol:

- the last scenes with Kira & Mary-Ann and Kira & Moirgane weren't working, now they should

- night music won't carry to the next day



Difficulty Tweaks!

- now you get 4 HP each point in constitution like originally I had planned, and all the difficulty levels are slightly more difficult (higher stats). Easy/Normal should still be no problem!

- I tweaked the catacombs in particular, since I designed those enemies first so they were weaker than the ones you find in the robberies :) In practice, for robberies the most noticeable effect is enemies with more HP and slightly more attack/defense/speed. For catacombs instead they should be much tougher, because before they were really too weak (basically I wasn't multiplying correctly the level*difficulty, so catacomb level 1 was supposed for a party level 2, etc!)

- nerfed Thalia's throwing knives so that the attack reduction effect is 15% instead of 25%, since was too easy to stack the condition and have enemies 25% weaker for 5+ turns!



In practice in Normal level you should be able to complete the catacombs, and have no particular problems in the robberies (of course, if the target level is more or less the one of your party!) except for the Military/Mercenaries, since that one should be difficult.

Instead for Hard/Nightmare, you should be well equipped with many gems to defeat the enemies.

I tested a bit the catacombs and it's tougher now, though probably there are still some levels that are slightly too easy. I'll wait for more player feedback for this. I don't plan to tweak the robberies much, unless you still tell me that they're too easy :)
Franka Jun 23, 2016
I think I burned myself out grinding the last 50+ robberies, and besides my work shift is coming up, so time to pass it on to the Nightmare players for balancing :!:



I enjoyed the romances, but I must admit that I was a little confused by the events of the ending; possibly that was just mental fatigue from the grind.



It sounds like you're moving away from the "short and furious" battles you had originally planned, I was already a bit surprised to see numbers go as high as they did in the game. I hope you didn't put more HP on the Heavy Guards though....
jack1974 Jun 23, 2016
I think I burned myself out grinding the last 50+ robberies, and besides my work shift is coming up, so time to pass it on to the Nightmare players for balancing :!:

Yes I understand you completely, after testing the game for so long!!

I enjoyed the romances, but I must admit that I was a little confused by the events of the ending; possibly that was just mental fatigue from the grind.

Cool. Well the ending events are voluntarily a bit vague. Sort of mini-cliffhanger to use in future games, a bit like Loren endings.

It sounds like you're moving away from the "short and furious" battles you had originally planned, I was already a bit surprised to see numbers go as high as they did in the game. I hope you didn't put more HP on the Heavy Guards though....

All enemies have more HP but only in Hard/Nightmare, Normal is like the one you played. Yes in the end was hard to balance it so that would always result in quick battles. However if I measure the time of a battle, I think it's much shorter than those of SOTW for example. having 3 party characters and max 5 enemies (but often there are 3) surely helps :)
Harbinger1975 Jun 23, 2016
Hey Jack. So far, I like the game. I think there is only one little...I won't say it's an issue. Maybe more of a thought? As the game goes on and you go deeper into the story and the amount the dark figure wants goes exuberant (I'm at the 50,000 one), maybe I'm doing it wrong, but the payouts/what you can get seems rather meager compared to what the goal is. Now maybe I'm completely wrong and this is the way it's supposed to be. It's not supposed to be easy to get all that gold and yes, it takes time. But it does feel very grindy. Maybe the higher you go in gold to give the figure, maybe the payouts should be...I dunno, say 2000-3000 gold? I don't mind games taking a bit. But lord in heaven. This is definitely more than a bit. I mean, don't get me wrong. SOTW took a long time. But you weren't doing the same thing all the time. You had options. This one seems a bit more restrictive (Or again, I'm doing it wrong). THIS IS NOT A COMPLAINT, JACK. I'm just looking at it from a testers view. Just some thoughts.
jack1974 Jun 23, 2016
No problem that's exactly the kind of feedback I want to get.

I think in the end (as I'll write in tomorrow's blog post) I'll add in the options screen a way to set the game "speed". Right now is balanced so that's grindy, and for you could be a bad thing (for me too!) but for other players not (RPG players like to grind).

So I think the only solution to make everyone happy is to add something like a slider in the options. If you get more payout you should also get more XP probably, otherwise you could reach the end but still be underleveled :)
Harbinger1975 Jun 23, 2016
Also, Jack, and I know you can't probably control this. I know you talked about 'sexy images' (I've seen them), that option for 'suggestive material' is not there. Are those CG's that'll be added in later?
jack1974 Jun 23, 2016
Yes though there's no real nudity in the missing images, they're sort of "censored", in a way. Hard to explain but you'll see when are ready :)
BobTheMob Jun 23, 2016
Right now is balanced so that's grindy, and for you could be a bad thing (for me too!) but for other players not (RPG players like to grind).


This brings up something I've been Curious about:



In Loren, there were the various spots one could keep going to to grind again and again--the Truth Temple and the goblins in the Citadel, for instance.

Such were not a feature in SOTW.



Just wondering, will we ever have those kinds of things in RPGs again? B/c I loved using that in Loren. :)
DarkWolf Jun 23, 2016
Hey Jack. So far, I like the game. I think there is only one little...I won't say it's an issue. Maybe more of a thought? As the game goes on and you go deeper into the story and the amount the dark figure wants goes exuberant (I'm at the 50,000 one), maybe I'm doing it wrong, but the payouts/what you can get seems rather meager compared to what the goal is. Now maybe I'm completely wrong and this is the way it's supposed to be. It's not supposed to be easy to get all that gold and yes, it takes time. But it does feel very grindy. Maybe the higher you go in gold to give the figure, maybe the payouts should be...I dunno, say 2000-3000 gold? I don't mind games taking a bit. But lord in heaven. This is definitely more than a bit. I mean, don't get me wrong. SOTW took a long time. But you weren't doing the same thing all the time. You had options. This one seems a bit more restrictive (Or again, I'm doing it wrong). THIS IS NOT A COMPLAINT, JACK. I'm just looking at it from a testers view. Just some thoughts.


Regarding this, I also wanted to add that you are most likely going to finish all romance scenes during first 2-3 steps and see all robbery mission scenes by that time and therefore in second half of a game you want have much of a story in it.
Harbinger1975 Jun 23, 2016
No problem that's exactly the kind of feedback I want to get.

I think in the end (as I'll write in tomorrow's blog post) I'll add in the options screen a way to set the game "speed". Right now is balanced so that's grindy, and for you could be a bad thing (for me too!) but for other players not (RPG players like to grind).

So I think the only solution to make everyone happy is to add something like a slider in the options. If you get more payout you should also get more XP probably, otherwise you could reach the end but still be underleveled :)


It's not that I mind grindy. For example. I love playing Skyrim. And trust me, that game can get VERY grindy. But...at the same time, it doesn't feel that way. Why? Because I can stop looking for Words of Power and go to say, Markarth and pick up a mission or two. I'm still leveling, I'm still grinding. But I'm doing something a bit different. I'm not saying grinding is bad at all. And I know you, and Forsaken and others have put their time into it. I'm just saying that the same missions over and over can get pretty monotonous fast. That's all. Again, not a complaint. Just an RPG player and tester trying to help out :)
kadakithis Jun 23, 2016
I got my card back, so bought it and going to start from the begginning to see if there are any problems, anything you want us to look specifically for Jack?
Franka Jun 24, 2016
Mother... Father... This is awkward...



http://i.imgur.com/vgVTukF.png" style="max-width:100%">



(When the screen fades in or out, the text box isn't there to cover the missing legs.)
jack1974 Jun 24, 2016

Just wondering, will we ever have those kinds of things in RPGs again? B/c I loved using that in Loren. :)

Well in this RPG there's plenty of grinding! :) In future ones yes I don't see a problem to keep doing that, making them optional.
Regarding this, I also wanted to add that you are most likely going to finish all romance scenes during first 2-3 steps and see all robbery mission scenes by that time and therefore in second half of a game you want have much of a story in it.

Ah I see. The thing is that the romances aren't tied to the main plot step, but only on passing days.

Maybe I should tie them to that, like step 2 => allow romances up to scene 4 (for each character), or something like that. It won't change anything in the game term but maybe the "flow" will be better?
I'm just saying that the same missions over and over can get pretty monotonous fast. That's all. Again, not a complaint. Just an RPG player and tester trying to help out :)

No I understand what you mean. Indeed for grinding I refer mostly to do repeated tasks to level up. Your Skyrim example is not grinding I think, otherwise all RPG would be grinding! It's normal to do several task to level up.

Indeed as much as I tried to make different rooms, there are probably 20-25 unique ones, and you can see them all quickly. I'll need to think how to change this, probably that option idea, or simply raise the money even more.



There's already a multiplier in the game, so each completed step, you earn more money, but maybe need to make it more apparent. I'll think about something!


I got my card back, so bought it and going to start from the begginning to see if there are any problems, anything you want us to look specifically for Jack?

Well if you want, the balance of the catacombs. I mean, not even playing in Hard/Nightmare, but just in Normal, you shouldn't be able to win easily a level "recommended for party of level 9" with a party of level 5 for example (even if depends also on equipment).

I think there are still some hidden bugs when one of your party member is removed (a bug Franka found a while ago), should happen in a military scene where you can duel against a "boss enemy" :)


Mother... Father... This is awkward...

Haha thanks will check it!
jack1974 Jun 24, 2016
Do you have a save when that missing window shows ? thanks :)
kadakithis Jun 24, 2016
While I do enjoy grinding, part of the joy of the grind is to overcome the game. You want to grind so you are better and things get easier, but scaling for grind kinda defeats all the fun of grinding. Otherwise it would just be difficulty.



Some stuff I noticed-Siphon life on Headless corpse didn't cost SP.

The enemies counterattack in ruins stopped working at all.

Playing on normal; and while a bit of a slog, the ruins work just fine at recommended levels. I try to tackle the levels early and even being a couple levels behind is pretty darn difficult.
jack1974 Jun 24, 2016
While I do enjoy grinding, part of the joy of the grind is to overcome the game. You want to grind so you are better and things get easier, but scaling for grind kinda defeats all the fun of grinding. Otherwise it would just be difficulty.

Is this a general consideration, or referred to this game in particular?

Some stuff I noticed-Siphon life on Headless corpse didn't cost SP.

The enemies counterattack in ruins stopped working at all.

Playing on normal; and while a bit of a slog, the ruins work just fine at recommended levels. I try to tackle the levels early and even being a couple levels behind is pretty darn difficult.

Thanks, will take a look. Cool that the catacombs at Normal difficulty seems good now! :)
jack1974 Jun 24, 2016
I gave some thought:

- about the fact that you can see all romance scenes in step2-3, I'm going to keep that: since many provide a bonus related to the robberies, makes sense to have those unlock at that time

- about the last steps, you're right! in particular the last two steps are really big. The 50k money one... lol :) Even if I already increase the robberies money based on the step, probably it's not enough. It's also bad that by that time you've basically seen most scripted scenes, so there isn't even the "novelty effect".



One solution could be that slider that I talk about in today's blog post. I am thinking also to add a few tweaks, like:

- make the shop earn more each day, with maybe possibility to schedule X days. Like you plan to only run the shop for 10 days, and you'll advance time and get that amount. You can already get the money by just passing time now, but clicking end turn every time for a lot of times is a bit too much :)

- have the possibility to do auto-battle, for the normal robbery encounters, not the scripted scenes. I would simply compare sisters stats with opponents, and generate a % of victory. Then you could try "auto-resolve" and skip that battle but still get the money/XP and basically do the robberies faster



I think with those two addition probably the ending stages should be less bad than now?
Harbinger1975 Jun 24, 2016
That could work I think, Jack. Actually, the shop idea and auto battle sound like a good compromise.
jack1974 Jun 24, 2016
Cool, I just started coding it today. Will probably do a new update tomorrow with this working :)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CltbUZvWIAEYhm3.jpg" style="max-width:100%">

I am thinking to enable this only after step2 or something, otherwise seems like a sort of cheat-mode :lol:

But I think is a good idea, this way people who want to grind can, those who don't want can use this system. You'll still need to do some fights of course otherwise you get to the final battle underleveled.
Harbinger1975 Jun 24, 2016
I like it, Jack. And yeah, that makes a lot more sense. You can get money pretty fast in the beginning. So you're right. It would be like cheating.