What did you think of the plot, by and large? What elements did you like, what elements didn't you like? In five attributes, how would you describe your feelings towards the story?



I'm speaking strictly about the story aspect here. Completely ignoring art, music and gameplay, how would you rate Seasons of the Wolf as a fantasy story?

I very much liked it. It was a good story, I loved the Chalassa romance, and it had a lot of interesting content.



On the note of the romance, it was very well written, but being a fan who swings more on the VN side than the RPG side, I would have enjoyed more of it, like a few more conversations, and maybe it actually coming up outside the romance itself and the ending. But it's very good the way it is . Another thing that would have been interesting is that since the twins don't share romance options it could have been fun to hook your sibling up with one of them as well, as a kind of background thing that they came to you about .

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The ending felt somewhat anticlimactic but in its own way, I can appreciate that. It's not often that a game like this doesn't end with some major encounter, and while feeling somewhat odd just from being different, it's actually kind of cool. The more I think about it, the more fitting this feels for the game though, as the group didn't have a quest that they were embarking on, they were just adventuring. The very ending part of the ending with Moran and your half brother just came out of left field though. I mean, I liked it and all, but it was just so random. Kind of like in a mystery novel when the killer turns out to be a random person mentioned once if ever. "Oh by the way that wolf you found in the beginning is your half brother, that was your mother you were going to skin, and you are a shapeshifter too." It would have been fun to actually get to shapeshift but I get chronologically why that doesn't work .

It had a lot of interesting lore, but sometimes it felt like we just glanced at what there was.



Shackelsplit was an interesting place that was building some good storylines, though how act 4 came in left most of them unfinished.



I'll be honest, by the end of the game I wanted someone to gag Krimm so she would just shut up about fighting , and she called Riley whiny... but she was still a good character .



As far as describing it with five attributes, Engrossing, Amusing, Compelling, Interesting, Cool.



I'm sure I'll think of some more feedback at some point but this is all that's coming to mind at the moment, but I very much liked the story



(Just to make this clear, I am giving my honest opinion, and I'm not trying to be sycophantic but it's kind of hard not to when you're giving praise )

I've edited and added a spoiler tag to your post, because... spoilers!! remember to use it when talking about such stuff, for the new players

I'm very tired right now, so sorry if that comes through as me being curt or whatever. Overall, I enjoyed myself, and I don't think I ever commented, "Well, that's just dumb" to myself. I'll go into some detail about stuff, but the intent is nitpicking more than strong critique.



What I enjoyed most about the story was the character interaction. Even if sometimes characters felt a little boiled down to their essentials in what they had to say, most of the time conversations seemed to flow pretty naturally and with a good amount of wit. This became more impressive as the party grew and everyone had to participate in the conversations. Obviously, everybody will have favorites and not so favorites, but nobody came across to me as obnoxious or totally superfluous. I particularly enjoyed the flashback stories, especially since I had the strong feeling that we couldn't trust them very well; they were being told to us by people with personal motives. That told us a lot about the characters, and really helped shape them.



I felt the plot itself was a bit unfocused. There wasn't really a strong red thread through our adventure, especially once we get to Act III, where we muck about on various random quests pretty much just because we can. This leads to our finale, which felt a little weak, possibly because Act III has sidetracked us from our main story. Act IV has an optional conclusion to our Act II adventure (which I kind of felt should have been obligatory since Act II filled a lot of our time), a conclusion to our Act I personal story (which I felt lacked something in the way of interaction and impact, since this was where we started out), a conclusion to our romance (good stuff for the ones I've seen so far, this is where I've felt most involved and invested, now wish it had taken up more space than it did), and something about some dark mages (which felt kind of unrelated and uninteresting since we're dealing with conclusions here, not new storylines).



So, in my own personal opinion: Act I, an interesting setup, whets the appetite. Act II, a focused escape plotline, makes sense, occasionally feels pretty epic in the arena. Act III sidetracks us. Act IV leads to somewhat weak conclusions, compounded by Act III confusing our focus.



But I've had a good time with the game, and that includes the story!

Hmm...having just finished the game minutes before this, my general impressions are somewhere along the lines of Act 1 is decent as a setup for the entire game, Act 2 is very good (a bit too linear but forgiveable since the focus kept the writing sharp and tight), Act 3 was just mostly wandering around doing sidequests. Shacklesplit could have been given a bit more attention to, rather than just having the party run around doing oddjobs for people. It could use more events happening in town and meetings with other NPCs to give a bit more life to the city. Act 4 felt...rushed, very rushed like people just wanted to finish the game and get on with the next project (sorry for saying this but that's how I felt playing Act 4). The little twist at the end that came at the end was definitely odd and came out of the blue almost like a Final Fantasy final boss since there was nothing done to foreshadow that fact.



With a smaller cast, the characters feel much better written compared to Loren and the constant banter and bickering amongst the party members made everyone feel closer and more tightly knit. My personal favourite part was in Act 3 during a certain's character's revelation

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where it turns out that Krimm was lying to everyone about her story, reversing roles here and there. Didn't really expect it, especially from a person who kept spewing all that honor stuffs all throughout the game.

The combat was good, much better done than Loren where all I did was increase Skill, speed and SP regen and used that to bulldoze my way through every fight by spamming normal attacks in Hard mode. Now you have to be a little bit smarter than the AI in planning your level-ups properly, making sure you have enough consumables and active skills. My favourite fight (and the most frustrating one) was against Deceit until I realized that he threw his most annoying attacks against the backrow only so I reversed my team's position and proceeded to slow pound him into the ground.



So while I do think that Seasons of the Wolf is a good game with a better combat system and levelling up mechanic compared to Loren, I also feel that the second half of the game doesn't quite measure up to the first portion of the game. Still glad I picked up this game though since the combat portion is much improved on and I relish the challenge.

Well at least I'm happy I did my part (coding/gameplay/design) better than Loren this time

Jokes apart, when you say about "rushed last part" you mean it because it was shorter, or ? I thought was too short too, that's why I've added some extra sidequests like the centaurs, minotaurs, gnolls. However as you know if you read my other ramblings, the game definitely became too big!

So I think probably the main error was on my part during the planning stage, I think Taleweaver did a good job following my storyboard. Probably the truth is that making such a game is not simple for smaller teams. I am now somewhat worried about Loren 2-3, even if there are two people writing it already, I'm starting to think that when I do such games I need to have a main writer for the story/romance and then another to do all the sidequests/minor stuff, because otherwise maybe the amount of work is a bit insane. I'm still learning to work on such games, as you can imagine is much more difficult than a VN/dating sim

For me, it was the pacing I think. It felt like the game just wanted the player to rush through Act 4 and quickly get to the end so that it can finally be done. Yeah I read some of your earlier posts mentioning that you felt that you were taking too long on this game and wanted to move on to the other games that's on your list so I understand wanting to move on to the newest project. But I think some of that feeling probably slipped into the final Act because Act 4 is just 'Go to A, then go to B and then finish up with C.' Story-wise it makes sense, but the extra quests just fills like filler, there for the sake of padding. I still like the game of course, just feel that Act 4 is weaker compared to the rest of the game.

Well the whole story including the sidequests was written since months though (early this year), so my frustration towards the end of the game has nothing to do with it I mean is not like that I cut parts of it on purpose, or something like that.

And yes, I understand that what everyone is saying is that basically the whole game itself is quite good, but were disappointed by the last part only. The game so far in pre-orders is doing better than Loren, so that's promising. Of course it still means nothing until it is "fully released" and shows up on biggest portals like Steam

I think in Act 4, it was hard to maintain a sense of urgency, allow for multiple endings/outcomes (depending on how the player deals with Bear) AND still make it as long as, say, Act 3. What I could have done was turn each of the three paths into longer adventures (i.e. have the party go through longer ordeals), but seeing how much more work that would have meant for poor Jack, I decided not to.



It's nice that you liked the character interactions and development. I tried to make it something special.



But seriously, no one expected the final revelation? After all the hints I gave throughout the story?

Anyway, if the game does well as I hope, we could do a DLC later next year that maybe expands more the last act adding more stuff it's always a possibility.

If this is too long a reply, my apologies.



In five attributes? Sheesh, I'll just choose one: I have been thoroughly entertained. :D



What I liked:

+ Character interactions were an absolute treat to read. I enjoyed the dialogues and how each and every one had a distinct and well-developed personality.

+ The backstories were a good addition and again reflected the character who was telling them

+ The ending. It was something that while I didn't outright expect it,

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Morran, the truth about their mom and the wolf part

it was an ending that made a lot of things "click." I don't think it came out of the blue, but it wasn't predictable, either. I think Chalassa's part was far more predictable, but this was hugely a problem of spoilers regarding the "added ending" and related stuff being openly discussed around here, so it's really hard to tell how much of that was predictable due to the storytelling only.

+ The fact that this wasn't a story of a 16-year-old finding teh powahs in themselves and then goes out to meet their destiny as the hero who will save the world. I love a lot of those stories, but I've played and read too many of them.... I'm a fan of Deadwood, so I really appreciate the fact that there are some "possible" final showdowns that the player sort of expects, but they never happen: for example:

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Master of the Pits. And you'll only fight the image of Grand Mogul, not himself.

It's not that I don't like a good revenge story, but pointing out enemies in the first half of the game and then going from battle to battle beating all them up would have been kind of predictable.

+ Shea/Riley- romance developed very nicely. I found it very honest and fun, but also, depending on what choices you'd pick, it could also be very hurtful.

+ Rowinda's "little glimpses of sanity". She's "the crazy hag" character, but those little tidbits

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especially upon meeting some assumed "No-Tribe" character at Qamar's quarters at the end of Act 3

brought her also depth.

+ Vaelis.

+ Vaelis.

+ Vaelis. (OK, I forgave him about the polar bear cub in Act 1)

+ Vaelis. OK, for real: best backstory. Non-romanceable awesome character; yes it's actually a bonus that he's not, so nothing iffy in the romance plot can ruin him. Has the most depth. Often errs on the side of sense and caution but is never "the boring older guy who is only there to keep the young heroes out of trouble until their powers bloom".





What I didn't like:

- OK, please don't flame me to death (anyone reading this), but while I really really really liked the added quest in Chalassa's path (special kudos for Jul's snacking. Finally succubus doing something characteristic and not being demoted to a pure ... *shuts up*) , I can't make myself like her happy ending. Sorry. I know why it's there. But for Althea, I think that the best "happy" ending she has is the "Alone" ending. Her best romance ending is

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if she kills Chalassa. Actually, her best ending would've been if she would let Chalassa kill her and then instead of Chalassa succeeding in her task, Shea and Artas (and maybe even Morran and Vaelis) would catch her redhanded and killed the bloodksin.

I knew there was a happy ending upon finishing that quest, but I still hoped that

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since we are dealing with a friggin' demon that's friggin' called Deceit and/or Jul ,.... and it's the theme of the game...that even after beating those guys you'd still find yourself ...well, deceived.

What I would've liked to see:

-Act IV has gotten some critique already about being short and I do agree with that to an extent because

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- in Act I you have this long talk with Laroneas, you meet up with Astor the Red, and then almost none of this is reflected in the end when you return to the village. What has happened to the dwarf? What happened to the bandits? Did Daronas ever found out if you swindled him with the pelts in act I? What happened to the council?Why we never meet this Dariel (mentioned in one sentence by Shagala in Act I .. save Morran quest)

So I guess while I appreciate the feel of urgency and the fact that there are no distracting sidequests anymore, I would've liked the end to be tied up more to experiences in Act I. But this is not a major issue. More like a wishlist to Santa.





Anyway, as I said in the other thread I friggin' love this game. :D

I agree with you about Chalassa's.

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As you know originally there was only the "bad ending". And despite being bad, I thought it was still somehow sweet and fitting the character/theme.

But there were two major problems: 1) that the yuri fans were outraged in forums 2) that as I could read the plot before anyone, I was very fond of Chalassa's character. If she won the fight, Althea/Shea would die, so that couldn't happen. If she lost, means that we wouldn't see her again anymore, and that would have been a pity as well. So, while I agree with you that the original bad ending was still cool (there are sad stories that are still beautiful) because of those two reasons I'm still somehow glad that we did it

Regarding Act IV, Astor the red was made up by me completely ALL the sidequests weren't done by Taleweaver, so I should have fixed the last act telling what happened to him myself but I really didn't had the time. As said, the game is already WAY MUCH LONGER than Loren+expansion put together! So, adding even more content would be a bit crazy on my side. I'm not Rowinda! (yet).

I don't mind doing a DLC that will explore better what happens to Ninim after the events, I think could be interesting

I've edited and added a spoiler tag to your post, because... spoilers!! remember to use it when talking about such stuff, for the new players

Oh right, sorry, slipped my mind because this was a thread specifically about spoilers in a way .



I remembered another point I had: Chalassa's romance had a kind of weird onset, I mean I still loved it, but it was a bit strange that in an attempt to get to know Chalassa better, Althea talked with her about food, which led to Chalassa telling her that she's a lesbian, and then talking about brothels, ending with the next time she talks to her being proposing a physical relationship. It makes a bit more sense when you consider that Chalassa at first was just proposing a physical relationship, and not a romantic one, but it still kind of feels like we missed a step. No biggie though



Also, while I can respect and admire a sweet sad ending, I'll always prefer the happy one that doesn't make me cry . Happy Chalassa ending every time !

Yeah a DLC that happens after Act 4 sounds like a nice side project. One of the things that did bug me towards the end was what happened to everyone in the village. And seriously though, what are the so-called hints that pointed towards that ending? I knew the wolf cub was somehow integral to Althea and Shea but nothing else seemed to fit as far as the game goes unless Althea's favorite food counts as a hint but that can just be attributed as waste not want not and some people do like to eat odder stuffs than that.

Actually, that was not one of the hints ^_^ well, at least not an intentional one. Here's a few I did put in:

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First, the trusting reaction of the young wolf towards the twins. Next, the Dingirrans coming to Ninim to catch wild animals for the arena, and instead bringing the twins with them. Then, in Shacklesplit, the comparison of the party to a pack of wolves. Next, Jariel's backstory revealing there are shapeshifters that look like really big animals and are able to change into elves, and they're really beautiful and easy to fall in love with...

Of course, I didn't want to make it a dead giveaway, but I wanted players to get to the revelation and say "oh NOW it makes sense!"

It would appear that you made it too obscure, I didn't connect it to anything I remembered from the earlier story either. I was more like, "Oh, ok, if you say so, then that's the story, I guess."

What I liked in the game:



+ Varyying locations with their own special plots. makes for a nice change in the game.

+ All of the characters had a long background story, that had to be/could be explored.

+ The Bathhouse as a chance to focus on interaction with companions of choice

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+ Bonus Skills for Rowinda and Vaelis

+ Solo-Missions for companions, gives a free chance to experiment with skill-combos without having to start the game anew

+ The "Blend-in" of Rowinda in conversations. Had to laugh hard sometimes.

+ The idea of "gambling". Mini games are always awesome and a welcome change of pace :D

+ Chalassa with open hair <3

+ Sharing of different skills multiple times (i.e. Rowinda, Jariel and Althea/Shea could heal) so you could more freely choose your battle-party.

+ Missions where you had to split up your team to get the job done

+ Pirates!!! (yarrrr)

+ Disclosure of the twin's "real" heritage





What I feel needs "refining":



- Change of pace in the boss fights

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like 90% of the game you are cool with lots of AoE-spamming but then you get two bosses that have really heavy regenerating abilities. It is hart to switch your parties ability-focus that late in the game. I'd have preferred an earlier warning that I might need focus-dps and lots of debuffs, cuz it was a pain in the a*** to deal with regen if you were taught to use aoe spamming during the game

- Sometimes the sprite's faces did not match to the emotion I thought they meant to express (like angry-face for shoked expression)

- Rowinda mentioned the word "Vulcano" a few bit too often :-D She was fun at first but really getting on my nerves at the end ^^

- I'd have loved to have more time in the bathhouse, listening to the companion's stories. Must not have been a quest though, just a story from the past. Like some slice of random past life :D.

- No suitable Elemental-Resistance buff for whole party available.

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Dealt with waves of melee easily but some mages always whiped my party ^^ especially the bosses

- Chalassa's good ending was "too easy"

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It was like "ok I'm spontaneously free, let's be happy and make love. I'd loved to have the feeling that maybe Jul was not so honest (they are deception-based demons) and Chalassa/Althea had to live with the constant nagging that maybe the promise was a lie. I always sat here on my pc and was waiting for the part when Jul would pop up and saw chaos in my relationship :D. Maybe the story could need a few more lines to "round" this up. Would make a nice DLC, too. You could use a tileset of desert to tell a story in the bloodskin's lands, where the girlie-girls are traveling to teach of freedom. Maybe Jul tries to harass them to leave her new "pets" alone.

Speaking only of the story, I think Act 1 was a good introduction, and Act 2 was really good and well-focused, although I wish the twins had a chance to get involved in the plot to get free instead of just getting caught up in it (but maybe they do and I made the wrong choices).



However, Act 3 felt unfocused and more like a bunch of random sidequests. I wish Merrow gave you a longer series of quests to get allies/trade partners for his town to strengthen its position, instead of just random tasks he needed fighters for. After all, helping out the town was the ostensible reason the group stayed there (except maybe for Riley who wanted treasure). Then freeing the blacksmith's family and the treasure hunts could have just been shorter sidequests.



As for Act 4, it was short but that's not necessarily a bad thing. The optional boss fights on the way were pretty fun (the minotaur fight is my favourite boss fight in the game btw) and short enough not to feel like contrived or boring filler. However, I wish the act had been more focused on actually solving the problems plaguing Ninim.

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Of those, the dark wizards felt like a pretty unlikely coincidence, what were the chances they would end up right there?

Imo, there should have been no dark wizards, but investigating the Dingirrans and Giant animals should have been more involved than just clicking on an arrow and doing a boss fight + a few filler fights. The revelation about them being shapeshifters came out of the blue for me, and frankly Act 4 didn't really answer the questions I actually had at the end of Act 1, like how the huge wolf's corpse disappeared or how the little wolf got free and why he killed the Dingirran? Also it's a bit strange that apparently nobody cares all that much about what actually happened to the twins' mother. Iguess she was the huge wolf whose corpse you find in Act 1, but shouldn't somebody remark on that? Seems pretty important.

I didn't really like the complete personality change the twins' father had, or the complete lack of explanation as to why he didn't tell the twins the truth in the first place instead of lying to them.

Also, considering the revelation about giant animals at the end, it feels *really* weird that you have to fight lots of them in random encounters while searching for Shangalla or grinding. Shouldn't the bear accuse you of being a worse murderer than the other 2 threats, considering you've killed at least 10 of his friends while looking for the healer?





So overall, I really liked the first 2 acts, Act 3 was fun but felt too unfocused and a bit like a missed opportunity to really help Shackletown and strike blows against slavery instead of doing random stuff, and I didn't like the resolution in Act 4.

Interesting feedback, everyone. Is fun that most people felt act3 was unfocused/left too much freedom, I thought that not having to follow one main plot, but being able to do quest-lines in any order would have been a nice change, but maybe there should have been at least one "main plot".

The DLC is going to focus more on story/lore/characters, will of course have battles and also a meta-game. I think the main "mistake" (which of course is not true for everyone, since many people liked the fights) was too have too frequent fights / have the story too focused into arriving into fights, instead maybe of some more extra stuff like quests that involved more choices or dialogues and not necessarily always a fight At least, I think!

No flaming here, I'd like to think we're all mature people able to have civilized discussions about differing opinions and tastes. It's fascinating to read everyone's feedback, often varying in different areas.

Especially fabulaparva post was an informative read as I find myself the polar opposite, as I can't make myself like most non-happy endings in games/movies/literature and it's always interesting to open yourself up to how the other side thinks.



For me personally, I'll always love my 'unrealistic' happy endings. It takes some of the greatest award winning 'sad' endings, to earn anything more then disdain from me, at-least for those I can give them my respect for an often thought provoking send-off, even if I will never like them, as I believe you can appreciate something that you don't like if it brings something important to the table.