fabulaparva
Aug 17, 2014
(personally I would remove regen completely and only give a few points for unique items)
=> the attributes of the Zx items are so uniform and bland as they are based on average values, and therfor mostly a least common denominator. Manual changes are possible (even desired?), but to be honest: I'm not that much interested to sink even more time in fixed unlimited stuff 
Thanks for the clarifications!
I'm starting to support the idea of removing HPR and SPR from random gen items as well and just adding those 4 items you suggested tweaked one way or another. (Although I still have my evil plans of suggesting a -20HPR item, lol)
I could manually do little tweaks directly to the list you posted, I'm just not so sure if the end result would be actually be a real improvement to what you already did as opinions will vary based on what luck people may have had.
jack1974
Aug 17, 2014
As for item prices, I can tweak that value myself, not a problem. I am wondering how much money other people have at end of act2 ? since obviously yaysword is not a good term of comparison
fabulaparva
Aug 17, 2014
Ugh, I have very little spending money as I pop into the taverns all the time.
Well, I have one save done at the end of the family quest with little over 3000 to spend.
(That's around 500 in cash and 2600-2800 in unused items once you take into account that they'll sell for half the price)
All in all, the Master of the Pits makes saving up and accumulating money through the whole act somewhat tricky.
yayswords
Aug 17, 2014
All in all, the Master of the Pits makes saving up and accumulating money through the whole act somewhat tricky.
Yeah that is a pretty cumbersome plot device. Halfway through act 1 until the end of act 2 I strive to not sell anything unless I need to buy something, because of various gold theft mechanics. It would be better if the MotP would just take a set amount based on difficulty level (and kick your ass somehow if you didn't have it). Although that would ruin one of the achievements I designed.
Not to digress though...
jack1974
Aug 17, 2014
Np about the money, just wanted to make sure that not EVERYONE had plenty of money to spend (so needed to tweak the money drop a bit). If is just yaysword, I don't consider that a problem
renke_
Aug 17, 2014
For reference, 5 SPR (or HPR, but I don't think it's worth that much) ~ 1500g is a good guideline.
lvl 6 regen jewelry: +1 611 gold, +2 837 gold, +3 985 gold +4 1229 gold
lvl 12: +1 749, +2 989, +3 1037, +4 1282
but those are already the doubled average values of the generator function
That probably says more about what kind of junk is generated on average than about the quality of these weapons lol. I'm fairly sure the first hammer I see in act 2 will be better than that sword.
I think it's quite interesting that the other avg values are quite decent and only damage sucks so much. Looking at the store inventory gives me normally the opposite feeling
For reference, as far as weapons go, those numbers are: 30 2h, 20 1h, 13 staff, 24 bow.
Finally some data points, must be hard for half-gods to answer us mere mortals...
(Although I still have my evil plans of suggesting a -20HPR item, lol)
Good eBayer, item as per description, would not buy again.
I am wondering how much money other people have at end of act2 ?
below 5000 gold in unenquipped items and cash (as an estimate)
http://datamining-fuer-anfaenger.de/foo/items/fixed_items_attempt2.ods (higher dmg and more sane jewelry prices)
PS If we use Zazir as fixed stuff dealer it would be a good idea to have him stock the medium usables (everything from bombs to potions) in high quantitites (at least 15 for each item)
jack1974
Aug 17, 2014
Finally some data points, must be hard for half-gods to answer us mere mortals...
Ssht! he might start demanding human sacrifices...!
PS If we use Zazir as fixed stuff dealer it would be a good idea to have him stock the medium usables (everything from bombs to potions) in high quantitites (at least 15 for each item)
Yes can do that, no problems
fabulaparva
Aug 17, 2014
Looks good, imho.
PS If we use Zazir as fixed stuff dealer it would be a good idea to have him stock the medium usables (everything from bombs to potions) in high quantitites (at least 15 for each item)
Thumbs up for this one. I doubt jack'll allow him to sell me 14 heavy bombs for 95 apiece again, so having a solid stock of "mediums" would be nice.
(Although I still have my evil plans of suggesting a -20HPR item, lol)
Good eBayer, item as per description, would not buy again.
Yeah, now I shall unashamedly insert Lore into here... I'm very intrigued by what is exactly that "dark place" Riley fell into when he tried to escape. Maybe the story will tell us later, maybe not. Whatever happened there would give tons of possibilities on how to Riley might be a part of the main theme of the story (deceit, as I recall).... but now I'm beginning to speculate and your patience must be wearing thin.... Since the trap portal has been there for ages, I thought of an item that would describe the Flight or Fight reflex of utter panic possibly related to that place. It gives huge boost on attack and speed but no defense and it will eat your life up. As if trying to scrape through walls, ceiling and floor in a crazy adrenaline boost... but succumbing after awhile. Right now a lot of the hard-hitting skills in the game require time to prepare...require stagger, require taking aim, require rallying. So I thought it would be interesting to have something that works best at the very beginning of a fight but has a high risk of leading into [KO] if the battle drags on.
Probably not what most players would choose to use nor something that the game needs. I think I'll just put that aside now and not contribute more to the "feature creep."
renke_
Aug 17, 2014
I proposed a similar suicide skill somewhere: huge increase for all attributes but after the effect wears out the char drops dead. Unfortunately Jack didn't bite :D
fabulaparva
Aug 17, 2014
Aww, that's a shame. Maybe some day....
yayswords
Aug 17, 2014
Finally some data points, must be hard for half-gods to answer us mere mortals...
I thought I communicated it well enough when I designed some weapons some pages ago. I think you were too busy making fun of my Kiduu lore text to actually remember the stats
Also we could have two options for each weapon style, one that is high in stats and one that is high in raw damage.
Anyway... how many of these necklaces can we buy? A pretty cool goldsink might be if consecutive purchases got more expensive.
renke_
Aug 18, 2014
I'm still under the impression fixed items should be unlimited (i.e. everyone can have theoretically one) - if this is game-breaking (balancing et al) it would be imho better to correct (=lower) the stats and not restricting the available amount.
and no one hinders you to define dozens of weapons more :D (in general I'm a friend of your two high stat / high dmg sets, but I suck at balancing and have some urgent and time-consuming RL stuff to do...)
jack1974
Aug 18, 2014
I don't think they should be unlimited instead
I don't play in Nightmare, but having unlimited access to a particular item could break the balance I think. Also, would be a bit unrealistic, if the item is rare/unique there should be just one of them?
renke_
Aug 18, 2014
we started this discussion around the idea to provide a guaranteed equipment quality - I don't think this base set must include regen wear, but the point yayswords mentioned (act 1: no regen, act 3: regen is plenty*) should be addressed somehow.
I still prefer the approach "every single unique quest item has some regen", but this was shot down because of layout issues
*) arguable even with the nerfed song
jack1974
Aug 18, 2014
Well as long as the cost is OK (so that you can't buy ALL of them at once), I guess there's no harm. But I think is enough to have one for each char, maybe like 6-7 quantity of each item. Not unlimited
I looked at your updated list, probably some weapons can use some HP/SP regen, to make it more "common" in act2 indeed
yayswords
Aug 18, 2014
It's a necklace. What does it matter if the supply is 6-7 or unlimited? We can't wear two necklaces anyway
(will comment on other stuff you two posted later)
jack1974
Aug 18, 2014
Yes I didn't check the updated items - I thought ALL of them had SP regen. So that could have been different, if each unique item has SPregen, even with only 2SP you have 3 weapons + 3 jewelry = 12 SP for example. But as the items are now is OK, I guess you can even add a bit more SPRegen.
In other words I nerfed down Sonata as said in forums (5 SP/turn until 20% of total SP, then 3 SP/turn) and while is still powerful is not game-breaking as before
renke_
Aug 18, 2014
I don't see the items we defined as unique. They are static but not some WOW! quest item
I'm talking about the *real* unique stuff (quest items for the spider queen, this dagger in Act 2, ...)
yayswords
Aug 18, 2014
I still think the necklace is freaking amazing though. I could roulette items superior to all the others, but that one? I'd be very hard pressed.
jack1974
Aug 18, 2014
OK that was the misunderstanding, for unique in that post I meant "manually created"
So yes, unique item = the legendary ones, obtainable with quests, etc. Manually created items=fixed items
About the necklace maybe nerf it down a little? well, is just a slot anyway, probably is OK
