Nightsnow
Jan 19, 2013
The game was pretty fanservice-ish, but it was an equal amount for men and women so I didn't mind. Also I don't see what is inhereitly wrong with fanservice. Just like 'Mary Sue', 'Deus ex Machina', etc. it is a frase so often misused that it has lost its meaning. I had sort of gotten the impression that Averon is a world where people flat out just don't like wearing a lot of clothes, I think I imagine the climate to be kinda humid and hot.
That said I like your idea: Costomizeable characters can't possible be a bad direction to go in in an rpg. And sadly, as a developer, I understand that you have to deal with the perception of the game. And get categorized as 'erogene' is just not fair and it properly best avoided.
jack1974
Jan 19, 2013
Since we have customizble clothes, can we have sexy clothes? So we get to make it optional if we wish to have the old degree of sexiness in our storylines?
I need first to finish all the artwork (had lots of troubles with colorists this time) but after everything else is done I guess I could have 1 extra sexy clothes for each class.
The game was pretty fanservice-ish, but it was an equal amount for men and women so I didn't mind. Also I don't see what is inhereitly wrong with fanservice. Just like 'Mary Sue', 'Deus ex Machina', etc. it is a frase so often misused that it has lost its meaning. I had sort of gotten the impression that Averon is a world where people flat out just don't like wearing a lot of clothes, I think I imagine the climate to be kinda humid and hot.
That said I like your idea: Costomizeable characters can't possible be a bad direction to go in in an rpg. And sadly, as a developer, I understand that you have to deal with the perception of the game. And get categorized as 'erogene' is just not fair and it properly best avoided.
No indeed nobody argued that was unfair, since as you said there were both sexy men and women. The main problem is being categorized as "eroge" and nothing else, like if the only reason to play the game was the erotic content. A bit like if people said that gamers should play The Witcher 2 just for the sexy scenes ignoring everything else, if you can forgive me the comparison
P_Tigras
Jan 19, 2013
But Elenor and Saren, apart the protection thing, looked like strippers that somehow stumbled into a fantasy story, totally out of place, the characters were really too much undressed.
I thought Elenor and Saren's original outfits were very appropriate for harem slaves.
jack1974
Jan 19, 2013
Yes could be, but in the sequel they leveled up and aren't slaves anymore
P_Tigras
Jan 19, 2013
Yes could be, but in the sequel they leveled up and aren't slaves anymore
Chambara might disagree with the latter characterization.
biscuit
Jan 20, 2013
I really enjoy the new customizable clothing options... I'll be honest, even though Loren grew to be one of my favorite games from Winter Wolves, I originally did NOT play or buy it because they seemed so... ridiculously dressed for me, so it was hard for me to imagine it as a serious game.
Then after playing more of the other games, I grew to trust the games that jack produces, and went to try the Loren demo after all... and then I was hooked!
Basically, even though I like having the sexy options, it's as OPTIONS-- I can also safely dress up the characters and feel less embarrassed about playing the game on my laptop at school (during lunch, of course! Never during class!).
P_Tigras
Jan 20, 2013
I really enjoy the new customizable clothing options... I'll be honest, even though Loren grew to be one of my favorite games from Winter Wolves, I originally did NOT play or buy it because they seemed so... ridiculously dressed for me, so it was hard for me to imagine it as a serious game.
Then after playing more of the other games, I grew to trust the games that jack produces, and went to try the Loren demo after all... and then I was hooked!
Basically, even though I like having the sexy options, it's as OPTIONS-- I can also safely dress up the characters and feel less embarrassed about playing the game on my laptop at school (during lunch, of course! Never during class!).
Getting a little more serious, now that I have more time, yeah, there is a delicate balancing act between sex appeal and porn. Sex appeal sells, but picking up the "porn" label is the kiss of death. And I think a lot of players are especially sensitive to -their- character being objectified. Saren and Elenor looked like sex toys in the original. And it's one thing if you choose those outfits for your character, it's an entirely different matter when you aren't given a choice, and are forced to wear them even when they're non-sensical like marching up the snow-covered Mount Kronos as Jack mentioned.
Heck, I'm not even entirely comfortable with the new mage Saren as I wouldn't be caught dead in an outfit like that. To me he looks like a cross between a Las Vegas stage magician and a Chip & Dale exotic dancer. I can just see him ripping his vest off after pulling a rabbit out of his oversized hat... I'm glad we'll have other options.
Furthermore, less can often be more, as I considered Valery the Vampire to be one of the most visually appealing characters in the original game despite showing less skin than some big name actresses at recent awards events. Meanwhile another redhead, Myrth, was one of the least popular romances in the game judging by the poll despite showing a lot of skin. I'll chalk Myrth's lower popularity as a romance interest to two factors, the most important being her continual whining/fainting. The second being her lack of curves in relation to the other possibilities, most notably Loren. Showing all that skin didn't make Myrth more attractive, it just sort of cheapened her.
Amukiki the forever shirtless, wearing just a loincloth even when climbing up icy Mount Kronos, seemed like over the top beefcake as well. I think it's one of the reasons (although not the only one) I never really cared about his character. I could go over other characters too, but the main point is that it's possible to make attractive characters that draw the eye without making most viewers think sex toy or porn. Rebecca Fox from Planet Stronghold is a good example of a sexy character who doesn't show up to save the world looking like a stripper.
jack1974
Jan 20, 2013
Basically, even though I like having the sexy options, it's as OPTIONS-- I can also safely dress up the characters and feel less embarrassed about playing the game on my laptop at school (during lunch, of course! Never during class!).
Haha yes I remember another user (or maybe was you?) saying that he was ashamed to play the game on the netbook while traveling because of the images! I forgot about this, and is yet another reason why the game by default should be more conservative
I agree with everything you said P_Tigras. If you think about it, Chambara is pretty covered, but I think she is one of the most sexy character of the game, just by her facial expressions (and what she says of course
). What I mean to those worried to lose eyecandy is that they need to judge the romances by the character personalities BESIDE the visual appearance. If we reduce everything to the appearance ONLY, then it becomes a porn game indeed where plot/personalities have no importance. And that's the last thing I want
(But again don't worry there WILL BE OPTIONAL eye candy!
)
P_Tigras
Jan 20, 2013
Basically, even though I like having the sexy options, it's as OPTIONS-- I can also safely dress up the characters and feel less embarrassed about playing the game on my laptop at school (during lunch, of course! Never during class!).
Haha yes I remember another user (or maybe was you?) saying that he was ashamed to play the game on the netbook while traveling because of the images! I forgot about this, and is yet another reason why the game by default should be more conservative
I agree with everything you said P_Tigras. If you think about it, Chambara is pretty covered, but I think she is one of the most sexy character of the game, just by her facial expressions (and what she says of course ). What I mean to those worried to lose eyecandy is that they need to judge the romances by the character personalities BESIDE the visual appearance. If we reduce everything to the appearance ONLY, then it becomes a porn game indeed where plot/personalities have no importance. And that's the last thing I want
(But again don't worry there WILL BE OPTIONAL eye candy! )
I entirely agree on Chambara. Her delicate facial features in the original game were adorable, and her personality radiated sensuality. That said, I'm not a big fan of her new portrait in the big romance chart for Loren 2. I liked the original more. I'm a little concerned about what the rest of her new artwork is going to look like.
I'm all for optional eye candy. Quite frankly, Loren's curves were what originally drew my eye and made me curious enough to learn more about the game.
Franka
Jan 20, 2013
Meanwhile another redhead, Myrth, was one of the least popular romances in the game judging by the poll despite showing a lot of skin. I'll chalk Myrth's lower popularity as a romance interest to two factors, the most important being her continual whining/fainting. The second being her lack of curves in relation to the other possibilities, most notably Loren. Showing all that skin didn't make Myrth more attractive, it just sort of cheapened her.
I for one would like Myrth better if I could romance her with Elenor.
In all seriousness that could be a big contributing factor to her popularity, or lack of it.
jack1974
Jan 20, 2013
Well it has a different pose, and originally her face was too long, but now is more similar. Of course artists sometimes draw characters slightly differently, depending on the pose of the face/body. Don't know what to do about that except using the old image but wanted a bit more variety
I for one would like Myrth better if I could romance her with Elenor. In all seriousness that could be a big contributing factor to her popularity, or lack of it.
I understand but I'm not adding even more romances to the already super-huge romance chart now, sorry
P_Tigras
Jan 20, 2013
Meanwhile another redhead, Myrth, was one of the least popular romances in the game judging by the poll despite showing a lot of skin. I'll chalk Myrth's lower popularity as a romance interest to two factors, the most important being her continual whining/fainting. The second being her lack of curves in relation to the other possibilities, most notably Loren. Showing all that skin didn't make Myrth more attractive, it just sort of cheapened her.
I for one would like Myrth better if I could romance her with Elenor. In all seriousness that could be a big contributing factor to her popularity, or lack of it.
Fair point! Yuri fans clearly are a very large proportion of the author's customer base. I'd be willing to trade you Myrth for Karen however.
jack1974
Jan 20, 2013
http://i.imgur.com/Xpvg7IQ.jpg" style="max-width:100%">
a side by side comparison. Different? yes, but is also different the pose and the default expression. One is 3/4 to the viewer, the new one looks the viewer in front. Considering all the insane problems I'm having right now with the colorist, is a miracle that I got some art done for that game...
For a moment I thought was at risk finishing the ART by 2014, not the game itself!
jack1974
Jan 20, 2013
Yes there are other expressions, and Aleema is really skilled to create new expressions using the existing ones as base
Sauzer
Jan 20, 2013
I agree that Saren looks again some kind of Las Vegas mage-stripper. To avoid this kind of problems is very easy: just place the words "fantasy art" + mages (or witches, sorcerer-sorceress, warrior, etc.) on "Google Images" and you get a lot of great images to get inspired (with a lot of clothes, less clothes, all kind of customes, etc.)
Just a note: There's a lot of difference between to be dressed sexy and to be a stripper. Lara Croft has a bit of clothes but she only shows the legs (and she has a lot of curves of course). I still remember Lara wearing that way inside the caves on the high snowed mountains on "Tomb Raider Anniversary". But I don't remember people complaining about it because was unrealistic LOL (of course it was really unrealistic!).
Edited: About Google Images, place the words in singular better (mage, warrior, sorcerer, etc.) ("fantasy art" + word, include the quotes on the search on this form)
jack1974
Jan 20, 2013
Just to reassure a group of people worried about the sexyness, here's Breza normal/sexy version:
http://i.imgur.com/6iC52af.jpg" style="max-width:100%">
I think that the right sexy version is perfect - making her even more naked would get into the ridiculous area. As it is, I think is pretty sexy even the left version, which is the one I'll take screenshots when submitting to review sites, Steam, etc. Then, IF the reviewers change the option to show the sexy version well, their fault!!! it's not like I'm forcing them to play in the sexy mode, and this time the normal mode is perfectly "normal", more on the cute side than sexy IMHO
Sauzer
Jan 20, 2013
WOW
Jack, why you showed first the Saren and Elenor images? You are a bad guy xD
I'm breathless after looking at Breza :D
Breza will be romanceable? I hope yes!
Waiting eagerly to see Loren too!
