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Alex81 Feb 14, 2016
in every romance pool on the forum shows that G x G is what Winter Wolf's fans like the most.




Krimm is the best romance of SOTW, no need to feel sad for not romancing Chalassa.

But in Loren we got the short end of the stick, Myrth is one of the most boring character every and Karen is a hell of a Milf.

In PS I shall always be partial to Rebecca, don't care about the others, but I can understand why someone would want to romance Michelle.


NO .... I'm happy people have different opinions on these romances, but in regards to Krimm?

It's -really- really -really- the character I've had the most problem with, in any game (well, perhaps ...since a moment in FF7 I started hating Sephiroth, but enough about that)



Krimm, she's the only character that's made me go back to load an older save more than hour back in time, reason was .... The story didn't allow you to break things off with her after finding out about her real background story / about her tribe.

This was the moment I realized she was a monster (in my personal opinion) I could not simply say "'tis alright, let's continue on as if nothing happened"



There were darker themes in Seasons of the Wolf, and with Krimm you visited some of those.

Though for me it made it impossible for me to -want- to continue any romance (honestly, if they'd let me, I'd kick her out of the party, permanently).



Perhaps my reaction was, strong here, perhaps she's "no Sephiroth" ,she does explain herself quite well, where she's coming from, and and the reason for her actions. This is also one of the reasons the -one- thing I criticize SOTW for is the lack of options when comes to romances.

(as in my opinion, Shea's only "acceptable" romantic option was Riley) Fewer romance options means there's a bigger chance there's no "interesting ones" in the eyes of the players)



Riley's okay, I liked both Chalassa and Jariel's, perhaps especially Chalassa's as hers was TOUGH to get the happy ending => something to fight for)



Having experienced Krimm's romance too, now that I explored the new VN mode for SOTW, I'll agree it's a -good- romance, it's just not one I really want to pursuit.



=> I'm likely to try all romances ('cause I'm a competionist too), but there are certainly some I prefer to others.

This usually boils down to how well they're written (and how I react to different kinds of writing)

Krimm's a great character 'cause of the writing (otherwise I wouldn't really have -cared-) ,realizing the truth at that tribal camp, made the betrayal I felt feel very real => she had lied about a -really dark past)
kadakithis Feb 15, 2016
I mean I agree with you. Krimm made having her in the party at all in future playthroughs frustrating because I feel there is no excuse, she is pretty darn evil, and kinda wish the guys had been a little dark to couteract both female romances. I will say Chalassa without cheats is harder to get a happy ending and without looking it up, probably not gonna happen.



As far as Karen vs Mryth I think that is more one to the other (personally I agree with you) but several on here wished they had Myrth and I feel its just a take on who likes what more. With 2 other options I dont think either lesbians or straight men were given any trouble.



But you gotta mention in PS there were 2 options for straight guys, and only one for lesbians who just talked about her boyfriend the entire romance. In roomates, straight guys got all 3 girls, and lesbians got 1. I don't think its unfair when 2 groups have the same number, but some characters are more popular than others. Thats hard to predict. Although telling Jack you want more similiar characters to the popular ones might help, but really its luck if you like what you got. Believe me, I'm a Bioware fan, and someday the option I want will be available, but until then gotta hope.
jack1974 Feb 15, 2016
I can't for sure predict if a character will be popular or not :)

I mean in PSCD I had the feeling that Rigel, Charlotte, Galina and Kaden would be, and indeed they are (especially the last two considering the romance DLC is not even out!) but very often you have surprises.

The thing I'm trying to do in future games is to have an even amount of romances for all the genders and sexual orientations, even if it's not always possible as you can imagine :)
kadakithis Feb 15, 2016
I totally get having equal numbers is not easy. Might work to switch back and forth if need be, more for this group one game, more for another group in the next, but that seems to raise hackles for whatever group has less, so hard to predict. I think we can agree not prefering options we have is just sometimes how it rolls.
Franka Feb 15, 2016
We can't all get exactly what we want, every single time. Nor are we entitled to. I have my personal preferences too, but the best romance I think we can get is one that you really feel the writer wanted to write. Sometimes we get romance tropes that feel like they're there because it's expected, those can be pretty uninteresting. Of course we can strongly disagree with what the writer has to say, but it's still more involving if there clearly was some spark to begin with.
ValHallen Feb 17, 2016
snip

Well the only thing I agree with you is that Krimm's romance is good.



Let me start saying she never has betrayed you, she has lied and ommited her past (just like Riley and Chalassa did), but in no way betrayed you.



You can think she is a monster, but she is just a human. She committed a mistake born of desire of vengeance and rage, but later she showed how regret for what she did, she payed for her crimes with years of being a slave, she learned with that and loathes any kind of slavery (and do everything to help the blacksmith's family) and when faced with the man who she wronged the most, while at first she tried to "regain her honor", she saw the futility of the course of action and put herself at his mercy to receive any punishment he would inflict to her. By that time she was not the same Krimm, in fact I would bet that if she could, she would have stopped herself from commiting that crime.



And that is the beautiful thing of her romance, is to see the bloodthirst Krimm who fought for honor, to become the Krimm that fought to free slaves, the Krimm that has the courage to face her past and mistake, and in the end see how motherhood changed her again, as she seeks a peaceful life for her children.



You can judge her all you want, but remember she did you no wrong and was forgiven by the man who she wronged the most. She is no psycopath without emotions (being ruled by her emotions are in fact her primary characteristic) and never betrayed you like Chalassa can do.

She is no more evil than Chalassa, Mesphit or Rei.
jack1974 Feb 18, 2016
I agree with everything ValHallen said. Krimm grew up in the nomads world, with their culture. If she was born in Grimoire, maybe you could accuse her of being a bit psycho, but in their culture what she did to her tribe was "normal".
kadakithis Feb 18, 2016
I agree with everything ValHallen said. Krimm grew up in the nomads world, with their culture. If she was born in Grimoire, maybe you could accuse her of being a bit psycho, but in their culture what she did to her tribe was "normal".


True, but we can't help but judge the world through our own world view and values. Its why in period pieces the heros have modern values. I like Krimm was that way, and glad you were willing to go there, but can't ever like her. To me, she wasn't a psycho so much as selfish to the point of evil and while forgiven she crossed a line that I feel the characters just could never trust her.



But I love her as a character.
ValHallen Feb 18, 2016

True, but we can't help but judge the world through our own world view and values. Its why in period pieces the heros have modern values. I like Krimm was that way, and glad you were willing to go there, but can't ever like her. To me, she wasn't a psycho so much as selfish to the point of evil and while forgiven she crossed a line that I feel the characters just could never trust her.



But I love her as a character.

You can dislike her and distrust her, that's your opinion and I respect, but judging for one action that she clearly has remorse and wish to be punished? I think its not fair.
Alex81 Feb 18, 2016
What makes a great character in a story is that they make you ,care, they get to you, as opposed to a -dull- character you won't even notice.

Krimm is one of those characters that really drew me into the game, she got a reaction out of me, as opposed to characters you barely even notice.



For me the turning point with my relationship with her was the events outside Shacklepit. Rushing to kill -every- last tribesman before her secret got out, I was simply mildly annoyed at first she didn't "stay in formation" and stay back when asked.



That she repented only -after- having been stopped kind of tipped the entire situation over in "too little, too late" territory.

It didn't sit right with me at all, I do regret I used the word "betrayal" in all this, as Krimm -had- done right by the party since joining, but as Kadakithis said? There are things people won't accept (easily) ,the nomads values -did- cause this to come about, that doesn't change the fact that I can't abide by those actions, no matter the reasoning
kadakithis Feb 18, 2016
Yeah I never believed she was actually remorsefull. Only repenting when caught and trying to kill her tribe just made it seem that she had not changed at all. Also that action had several smaller actions, added on that her first chance to repent and instead she wants to commit whole slaughter. She didn't seem to be remoseful earlier and purposefully changed her story not to hide it but to cast the guy as a villain and to kill him.



Last second apologies seem kinda meaningless next to that. And the judgement of their sincerity is very shaky.



That said, I think she is one of the best characters because of her cruelty. Challassa has to be evil, no choice, and strives to be good. That is usual for evil good guys, but a normal person who makes you feel because of normal evil is cut from a different cloth. We don't expect it and the character was written really well. You could understand her motivations even if her actions were extreme, and thats kinda why I hate her as a person but love her as a character.
ValHallen Feb 18, 2016

That she repented only -after- having been stopped kind of tipped the entire situation over in "too little, too late" territory.

It didn't sit right with me at all, I do regret I used the word "betrayal" in all this, as Krimm -had- done right by the party since joining, but as Kadakithis said? There are things people won't accept (easily) ,the nomads values -did- cause this to come about, that doesn't change the fact that I can't abide by those actions, no matter the reasoning

Remember that those man werent innocents bystanders. They were raiders who were attacking merchants caravans.

As I said before, Krimm is an emotional person, she acts before she thinks. There she saw the chance to restore her honor by the traddition of her tribe. Once she had time to think, she saw how futile it would be.

You are in your right to not abide it and not accept it, but it doesnt change her romance arc is beautifuly done.


Yeah I never believed she was actually remorsefull. Only repenting when caught and trying to kill her tribe just made it seem that she had not changed at all. Also that action had several smaller actions, added on that her first chance to repent and instead she wants to commit whole slaughter. She didn't seem to be remoseful earlier and purposefully changed her story not to hide it but to cast the guy as a villain and to kill him.



Last second apologies seem kinda meaningless next to that. And the judgement of their sincerity is very shaky.



That said, I think she is one of the best characters because of her cruelty. Challassa has to be evil, no choice, and strives to be good. That is usual for evil good guys, but a normal person who makes you feel because of normal evil is cut from a different cloth. We don't expect it and the character was written really well. You could understand her motivations even if her actions were extreme, and thats kinda why I hate her as a person but love her as a character.

If she wasnt, she would not put herself at that guy's mercy. She didnt do it because she got caught, it was her who confessed what had happened and even then what would happen to her if she didnt confessed? Who would believe the guy who was the leader of the bandits who were attacking the city over the person who helped free several slaves over the year? She had nothing to gain by saying the truth.



She didnt ask forgiveness to anyone, she was ready to be punished in whatever way that guy wanted (someone remember his name?), be it death or spend the rest of her life as her wife if he wanted, and if you romance her you can see how determined she is. If it doesnt show how she wanted to pay for crimes, I dont know what can.

And the guy forgave her, who are us (a third party person, who wasnt affected by her actions) to say she doesnt deserve it?



And she isnt cruel, she doesnt have pleasure on inflicting pain on others.
pyla88 Feb 19, 2016
I feel like the main problem is there's no option to break it off. Realistically, a good chunk of people won't be like you & able to forgive/justify/empathize her actions. And they shouldn't necessarily have to. (Whether or not they're the minority; Idk what the consensus is.)
P_Tigras Feb 20, 2016
I agree with everything ValHallen said. Krimm grew up in the nomads world, with their culture. If she was born in Grimoire, maybe you could accuse her of being a bit psycho, but in their culture what she did to her tribe was "normal".


True, but we can't help but judge the world through our own world view and values. Its why in period pieces the heros have modern values.


I detest characters like that as phony. Nothing will make me toss a book in the trash or stop playing a game faster than unrealistic personalities (unless it's a comedy). Good stories don't just put modern people in period costumes, they create characters with believable personalities. They don't just confirm the reader's existing biases, but cause the reader to consider story events from different angles and perspectives than they would normally.


I like Krimm was that way, and glad you were willing to go there, but can't ever like her. To me, she wasn't a psycho so much as selfish to the point of evil and while forgiven she crossed a line that I feel the characters just could never trust her.


Eh. One's definition of good and evil depends on one's beliefs and core values. Furthermore, like most people, Krimm was a product of her culture. And unfortunately one of the negative aspects of her culture is that it lionizes aggression and devalues human life. I can only imagine how rough her childhood was growing up in a culture like that. Thus i give Krimm a lot of credit for being able to overcome her cultural programming and grow into someone more evolved as her core beliefs were challenged by game events, forcing her to reconsider them. As a result I judge Krimm not based on the person she was at the beginning of the story, but on the person she grew into by its end.



And if one is wise, trust isn't an all or nothing proposition. Instead you take off the blinders and do everything you can to understand those closest to you, and then trust them to be true to who they are. You'll rarely be surprised or disappointed that way.


But I love her as a character.


Me too.
P_Tigras Feb 20, 2016
I feel like the main problem is there's no option to break it off. Realistically, a good chunk of people won't be like you & able to forgive/justify/empathize her actions. And they shouldn't necessarily have to. (Whether or not they're the minority; Idk what the consensus is.)


This is a good point. If a major bombshell gets dropped on the MC's relationship with another character, the player should have the ability to re-evaluate and end it if they wish.
fabulaparva Feb 20, 2016
We can't all get exactly what we want, every single time. Nor are we entitled to. I have my personal preferences too, but the best romance I think we can get is one that you really feel the writer wanted to write. Sometimes we get romance tropes that feel like they're there because it's expected, those can be pretty uninteresting. Of course we can strongly disagree with what the writer has to say, but it's still more involving if there clearly was some spark to begin with.

As Sauzer would put it: "You speak Truth." 8)



When it comes to yuri/yaoi-only vs hetero romance options, as I think I typed way back, I play them all and choose based on how interesting the characters are and interactions are -not so much on gender-, but I also prefer variety. It seems like Jack has a solid yuri-audience and and enjoys making those games, so it's of course completely his prerogative what he makes (and what his audience wants). It's just that since a lot of hetero-only VNs outside of WW either bore me to death (blushing airhead heroines in otome games) or make me lose my lunch (certain male POV college sleazeballing), that I was happy to read that Jack will keep all combos in his games. (not every option in all games, but you know what I mean) :P



Random sidenote:

It's a personal quirk of mine to often (not always) rebel against whatever can be seen as the 'canon' romance/true ending among multiple paths/choices. This has happened to me in other games, but to give a winterwolves example, Mira and Charlotte @PSCD will be the last romantic paths I'll read, since I saw them being Alex's and Diana's choices while doing the NPC quests playing the other sibling.
ValHallen Feb 20, 2016

It's a personal quirk of mine to often (not always) rebel against whatever can be seen as the 'canon' romance/true ending among multiple paths/choices. This has happened to me in other games, but to give a winterwolves example, Mira and Charlotte @PSCD will be the last romantic paths I'll read, since I saw them being Alex's and Diana's choices while doing the NPC quests playing the other sibling.

I recommend doing Mira's romance first, if you do later, it will not have the same impact.
karalius465 May 05, 2016
Asexual doesn't mean no romance.
trueKieran Jun 20, 2016
As usual I'm late to the party... anyway. Male player here, chose "male + female" and "female + female", but wanted to go into more detail. I'm also fine in both cases with the romancible character being an alien as long as they look and identify as female, a good example here would be the Asari from Mass Effect I guess. Technically one of them (aswell as women of other races) can be the "father" of their children because of their way of reproducing, but they are still considered a race of females and also look female.



In terms of asexual it's a bit more complicated. I'm not really interested in "male + asexual". Concerning "female + asexual", it depends on what we're talking about. If the asexual part is something like a self-aware cloud or a robot similar to the antbots from Planet Stronhold but with two cannons (just started playing) where really no sexual interaction is possible, then the answer is no, not interested. If it's something like the android Lucile on the other hand, that would be perfectly fine, she has hands after all, so she can still use tools, same goes for other creatures who are able to grab things, like a plant creature with tendrils.
kadakithis Jun 20, 2016

In terms of asexual it's a bit more complicated. I'm not really interested in "male + asexual". Concerning "female + asexual", it depends on what we're talking about. If the asexual part is something like a self-aware cloud or a robot similar to the antbots from Planet Stronhold but with two cannons (just started playing) where really no sexual interaction is possible, then the answer is no, not interested. If it's something like the android Lucile on the other hand, that would be perfectly fine, she has hands after all, so she can still use tools, same goes for other creatures who are able to grab things, like a plant creature with tendrils.


By asexual I think it means the sexuality. Mostly it means someone who isn't attracted to anyone. Doesn't mean they can't or won't like sex, but they aren't attracted to anyone. Homosexual-attracted to same sex, Heterosexual- attracted to the opposite sex, bisexual-attracted to both, Asexual- attracted to neither. Some are non-repulsed and do have sex. Others are repulsed and don't have any. Many asexuals still have a gender preference, but for romance rather than sex.



My first gf was an asexual, she preferred women, and while not repulsed was very skittish about sex. We only ever cuddled, which was fine with me, we broke up due to distance instead of her asexuality. One asexual guy I know described sex like this "Watching a TV program that is kinda boring but you don't mind watching it with them because they enjoy it so much."