BobTheMob
Sep 02, 2016
So many different opinions... we'll just have to wait and see I guess. No dount Jack has a few good beta-readers to give me further advice.
Speaking of beta reading; the English language can kill me with its verb tenses... The (entire) story is seen through the eyes of a narrator that is present and involved. All actions and facts are told and reported as immediate statements. So all of you who speak English as their first language (because it isn't mine), please tell me if the following is correct:
“That’s enough. We were tasked with bringing them both here and leave at once. I may not have been here as long as you but I have been long enough to know how doctor Hunt doesn’t tolerate insubordination!” The woman adds. Albeit my own fear and outrage, I could not help but notice how her voice sounded like she was pleading.
As a native speaker of English:
It should read: “That’s enough. We were tasked with bringing them both here and
leaving at once. I may not have been here as long as you but I have been long enough to know how
Doctor Hunt doesn’t tolerate insubordination!” The woman adds. Albeit my own fear and outrage, I could not help but notice how her voice sounded like she was pleading.
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Other than those two minor things this seems like the making of something cool!
Best o' Luck w/ it!
DarkWolf
Sep 02, 2016
Not a native English speaker but I did find the first sentence Bob corrected to be a bit off in the original, that said for non native English speaker your writing seems to be quite difficult, excluding spelling I consider my English to be close to native level yet I never heard of a word "Albeit" before.
Franka
Sep 02, 2016
I never heard of a word "Albeit" before.
Not a native English speaker myself, but while I do know that word, I'm not so sure it's the correct word for this sentence. I would go with "Despite" or "In spite of" (I know that's not the part you were asking about).
As for tenses, you may want to stick to the present tense if you're going for a narrator who's present, involved and immediate - I cannot help but notice how her voice sounds like she's pleading.
Troyen
Sep 02, 2016
+1 on despite or Franka's present-tense alternative.
"Albeit" isn't an unknown word, but it most frequently appears in the middle of a sentence as an aside; starting with it feels a little odd. And in this case "although my own fear and outrage" wouldn't be proper phrasing anyway, so "albeit" doesn't fit.
pahldus
Sep 06, 2016
Despite is definitely the word I would use instead of albeit. While it might be grammatically correct, no native speaker of English would use it in that context. I say this as a native speaker of English.
aeroprism
Sep 07, 2016
Albeit is a synonym of although. It does fit in context but I will admit without reserve that "despite" fits a lot better.
Verb tenses... The only thing that annoys me to no end with the present tense is the lack of depth it displays.
"I see this. He turns left. He comes into the room. He says hi." It's like some verbally-challenged teenager is watching a movie and tries to describe a scene as it simultaneously unfolds.
"I saw it happening. He turned left. He came into the room and said hi." Still feels like the present but... I can't explain it. It's a gut feeling.
I may not be a native English speaker but I do live in a country where many people are. I'll run a few paragraphs by some of my friends who spoke English all their lives and I'll come back here so we can compare results.
On another note: thanks again for the answers AND the encouragements. Last week was quite peculiar for me. While my specialty is high-epic fantasy/sci-fi, this scene was another beast entirely. Dark, sad and terrible. I had to seclude myself, play the appropriate music and get in the mood. I'm not used to writing such dark and cruel stories.
I found it a very good way to broaden my horizons. Hopefully it will be a story you guys will appreciate!
Franka
Sep 07, 2016
Albeit is a synonym of although. It does fit in context but I will admit without reserve that "despite" fits a lot better.
Not to beat a dead horse, but "although" doesn't fit that sentence either.
I completely understand, from my own writings, how using the present tense all the time sometimes reads really strangely. I assume your regular sentence structure is a little more advanced than the extreme example you provided here, though. Anything sounds like caveman in three word sentences. Ooga knew this.
aeroprism
Sep 07, 2016
My structure will indeed be a tad more elaborate.
Not to beat a dead horse, but "although" doesn't fit that sentence either.
You are 100% correct, which makes me wonder why I bothered pointing it out in the first place
Soooo... considering that Winterwolves's games more often than none end up with "and they all dated ever after", how do you guys feel about a really, really unfair story?
I mean, Cthulhu and his buddies were really scary decades ago but now, you need more than a creaking floor and some undefined shadows to make gamers uncomfortable.
Note that there ARE ways to "win" this game and come out on top, but it IS a suspense/horror game. No matter the path you take, there will be injustice, there will be pain and... well, you get the idea.
jack1974
Sep 07, 2016
I think as long as there is ONE happy ending, it should be fine, in several other games, you can have a bad/sad ending, but also a happy one if you make the right choices.
aeroprism
Sep 07, 2016
As I said, my concern is not really about the ending but with the game content itself. Some events, sad and really uncool events will happen even if the "good" ending is reached.
The example I have in mind is the nurse who dies horribly in Silent Hill 1. It happens no matter what decision you take in the game and it has a deep impact.
I could also pull the FF7/Aerith argument but that was just terrible storytelling
Is this desirable?
Franka
Sep 07, 2016
I played through different incarnations of Corpse Party, and sometimes enjoyed myself. I think I can cope. Unless you want to write uncomfortably detailed scenes of digging eyeballs out with a spoon. That part was unsettling.
jack1974
Sep 07, 2016
Unless you want to write uncomfortably detailed scenes of digging eyeballs out with a spoon. That part was unsettling.
Haha not my kind of games!
I enjoyed Until Dawn, even if a lot of people died in my first/only playthrough (no time to try multiple times).
aeroprism
Sep 07, 2016
Jack specifically asked me to avoid useless gore or even gore in general, which is fine by me since I do not care one bit for the genre.
I'm looking at scenes that challenge you emotionally. Have you seen District 9? The scene where Wikus is forced to use alien weapons and kill an innocent test subject? Albeit (
) it has nothing to do with my setting, this would be a good parallel example.
aeroprism
Sep 07, 2016
So let's say I bring an answer to three questions that were brought up in the last few posts.
1- If there is no eye scooping, what exactly is the mood for this game?
2- What does it look like when the narrator uses only the present tense?
3- Can this guy write sentences more elaborate than "See Dick. See Jane. See Spot Run. Run Spot Run."
and here is a bonus question, because I'm generous like that:
4- Will this game be awesome?
Here is a short answer in ~500 words. Ignore the language errors, this is an uncorrected draft.
Comment, suggest, discuss. You have an opportunity to make this game better BEFORE you buy it!
------------
At first it feels like I’m normally waking up but this dishonest bliss doesn’t last more than a few short seconds. The surroundings are once more all too familiar: the sickly lighting, the overpowering sterile smell and the lack of any ambient sound; I’m in “that” room again.
I’m reminded of my mauled shoulder. What will they do to me this time?
I try to look around but I can’t move. Just like before, I am physically paralyzed. I can still see and hear, so long as I’m content with seeing what’s directly in front of me. Is this predicament of mine an intentional setup or do 'they' still lack the means necessary to keep me effectively sedated? I’m guessing the latter, which implies that until a few moments ago, I was 'sleeping' with my eyes opened and that the drug they used wore out just enough to let my consciousness sneak back in. The whole idea makes my stomach turn. How long will it be before the drug weakens enough to allow me to move my eyes and have a true field of view? Last time I was in here and in such a state, I was only given a minute or two before being drugged again. We’ll find out soon enough, I’m sure.
This time however, I’m not lying on a bed. I’m installed on a more or less vertical surface, a table which is angled at maybe 10 degrees. The drug in my system makes me essentially motionless but I’m not sliding down this table ; I assume that I am tightly bound in place, a functional way to keep a paralyzed person standing upright. But for what purpose?
The sound of a door opening reaches my ears. I can’t turn my head or orient my eyes so I have no idea who it is. I can’t even decide if it’s someone coming in or going out. With my current luck, I expect Dr. Hunt is back to “treat” me. This is all extremely unsettling.What sort of a drug hits hard enough to paralyze even your optic muscles but lets you breathe normally?
The newcomers finally come in sight and I am almost relieved to see that Dr. Hunt is not among them. These two are… nurses I guess. They wear the same kind of greyish scrubs worn by the man who scared Connie out of my room. An unwelcome sight; my mind is quick to remember that this uniform means trouble. So one man and one woman, pushing a sort of wheeled platform on which stands a restraining surface that’s probably the same type as the one I am bound to.
This is as far as my relief goes however. Doctor Hunt may not be part of this ongoing scene, someone else is and I was not expecting to see that person becoming part of my own private hell. This presence sends me into a spiral filled with more questions, deeper doubts and a much darker fear.
Franka
Sep 07, 2016
Jack specifically asked me to avoid useless gore or even gore in general, which is fine by me since I do not care one bit for the genre.
Well, the first person description of the grating sound made by a metal spoon scraping against the inside of that person's skull did elicit an emotional response, and it wasn't one of comfort.
Have you seen District 9? The scene where Wikus is forced to use alien weapons and kill an innocent test subject? Albeit ( ) it has nothing to do with my setting, this would be a good parallel example.
Sadly, I cannot stand District 9, though that probably has more to do with my aversion to the "documentary" presentation, which I rank about as low as "found footage" in the greater scheme of storytelling "tricks." Consequently, anything from that movie is pretty much tainted to me.
Anyway, reading through your example text, I think the present tense works perfectly fine. I find it immersive and immediate. Ooga like too.
jack1974
Sep 07, 2016
Just wanted to say that District 9 is one of my favorite movies ever
and I'm not fond of the documentary presentation either!
DarkWolf
Sep 07, 2016
Regarding horror with no gore I wanted to say that horror with no gore can sometimes turn up far scarier then your classical guts everywhere horror. Also I myself like horrors that concentrate more on psychology and drama then on gore and they are definitely a lot more rare.
I also agree with Jack that it is ok for story to have sad moments as long as you have at least one happy ending. In Japan there are two different genres when it comes to sad VNs Nakige (Crying games) and Utsuge (Depressing games) the latter concentrate on being depressing from beginning to an end with goal to make reader depressed and I don't like that genre at all Nakige on the other hand have a lot of sad moments with goal to make a reader cry but they often have happy endings and I like them.
Regarding a sample of story, this sentence "We’ll find out soon enough, I’m sure." seems a bit off to me, it makes it seem like the guy in the text isn't very concord about what is going to happen to him, like oh well we'll find out soon there is no point thinking about it now. Also as a story is told from a first prescriptive present time and he seems to be the only person in that situation shouldn't it be "I" and not "we"?
Troyen
Sep 07, 2016
Soooo... considering that Winterwolves's games more often than none end up with "and they all dated ever after", how do you guys feel about a really, really unfair story?
Have you seen the Chalassa ending?
aeroprism
Sep 08, 2016
@DarkWolf, you are correct with your first assumption: the character does not know what is going to happen but has been through so much in the last day, he knows it's pointless to worry, what will happen, will happen. As for your second point: there are no double quotes surrounding that phrase. This means it's an internal monologue and the usage of the first person plural in such a case is very, very common.
@Troyen: No, I have not (yet).
