It became 3/member because I thought your total amount was valid for end of act 2. And no one will hinder you to define +SP exclusive items, but I want to ban SPR stacking (like +1 for every slot) - imho the most useful method is restricting regen to the necklace slot.



PS the restriction is only valid for the fixed unlimited items, not for other unique stuff. see also my proposal to add small regen (sum=act no.) to every unique item (when possible).

If HP/SP items are only the unique ones, I think should be possible to limit the HP/SP without need to make big changes.

I mean it would be enough to have: level 12 sword 1 HPRegen, level 15 2 HPRegen, level 18 3 HPRegen and so on. Since the items are only weapons+jewelry, even counting dual wield and ranged, would be 3 + 3 items. At level 27 they have 6, would be 6 x 6 = 36 potential HP/SP Regen.

But I don't think we should put too much regen even in the unique items ?

Hehe, in your world +1 in every slot is stacking, in my world it's stupidity :D



But yes I think it makes sense to limit it to necklaces. A particularly bizarre part of my SPR stacking is getting regen bows for my ranger and Vaelis. That's items I can probably keep forever, since they hardly need to keep their ranged damage "up to date". Similarly Chalassa could have SPR melee weapons if she stays in the back row. I digress.



I'm wondering what you (and everyone else) thinks of having "quite the selection" of these necklaces. Casino-wise you can get as much as 6 SPR on any regen item in act 2, but like I've said, that is expensive (still not expensive enough for me obviously ). What if we had a range of 1 through 4 (or even 5) SPR necklaces available? And you had to weigh spending extra gold against coping with less regen.



To avoid spam, the necklaces could appear in shops like this:

Neutral district market: The weakest items of both types (SPR and HPR)

Mage shop: Medium SPR

Warrior shop: Medium HPR

Thief shop: Medium HPR/SPR mix

Galanna shop: The best items

I mean it would be enough to have: level 12 sword 1 HPRegen, level 15 2 HPRegen, level 18 3 HPRegen and so on.

I'm not a fan of regen on weapons. Partly because of my "ranger bow story" above, and partly because I want to use them for damage, and it's annoying when a damage upgrade costs me regen I guess that's a problem with me and not the game perhaps...

My main concern is for the layout when you examine the items. Removing HP/SP on weapons is not a problem, I just eliminate the bottom row. For the rings becomes a bit more troublesome since the rows are of 3 columns: if I remove two items, it wouldn't be aligned anymore An option could be to remove another bonus stat for the jewelry, like attack/defense/speed (magic don't think).

not _only_ unique items, I'm thinking more along the lines that also the fixed unlimited items (we're trying to define here^^) should give regen - to ensure some mana regen (more important than HPR) is available for all party members at the end of act 2. Though the necklace slot is probably not that good, already blocked by two of the other cool uniques in act 2 (earrings and Riley's necklace). I convinced myself to propose the head slot for fixed regen wear :D (and we have to convonce Jack to add regen to armour ^^)

An option could be to remove another bonus stat for the jewelry, like attack/defense/speed (magic don't think).

It's already easier to get high magic than high attack (though the +attack on armor has helped), at least in absolute numbers. Obviously they don't compete against the same defenses. I think we could remove defense from rings. They are already quite defensive items - magic reduces spell damage, resistances are... well even if I don't always like them, they are certainly a defensive stat, and they appear left right and center on jewelry.

Though the necklace slot is probably not that good, already blocked by two of the other cool uniques in act 2 (earrings and Riley's necklace)

I always put the earrings on Krimm. I did that before I even realized how little SPR she needs if she uses Rage. Furthermore, Riley's necklace has some SPR anyway.

I'm not sure why we are discussing the removal of item attributes?



To outline my idea (it seems I wasn't clear enough )

- regen is removed for all generator items

- all unique items (including armour pieces) should give a small amount of regen (regardless of the slot, normal rules don't apply - after all, they are unique)

- one slot (to be defined) is used as regen bearer for the static items (the "reliable guaranteed offer" I mentioned above)



If this works out we have a base level for equipment (this or that amount of typical regen, a quasi-static lower limit for other item boni [as set by the fixed equipment]) - mousewheeling is still possible, and as yayswords will be unhappy with the fixed +8 speed staff he can pray to the RNG God until he find the requested +12 speed staff (w/o regen)

I'm not sure why we are discussing the removal of item attributes?

Because if rings no longer can have regen, having them list their regen stats becomes misleading. But it'd be removing 2 cells when each row has 3, so for layout, another stat would have to go.

and as yayswords will be unhappy with the fixed +8 speed staff he can pray to the RNG God until he find the requested +12 speed staff (w/o regen)

You never learn, padawan. Weapons are for damage. I was going to show you the damage difference on spells with 12 damage staff vs. 16 but old saves have broken left and right :D

Because if rings no longer can have regen, having them list their regen stats becomes misleading. But it'd be removing 2 cells when each row has 3, so for layout, another stat would have to go.

- there could be a unique item with regen (Rowinda's Skull Ring [probably untrue, but fitting])

- it it not unrealistic that the fixed item team (do we get paid? ) will have to relax the rules later on and defines regen rings for act 4

You never learn, padawan.

ignorance is bliss

Not going to add regen to armors or do any other big changes now. Removing existing stats = OK. Adding new stats or other big changes (for the game) nope sorry. Remember, game out before 2020, etc

Besides you can still use potions, you don't really need SPRegen item as source of SP regen (there are also plenty of skills for that).

Besides you can still use potions, you don't really need SPRegen item as source of SP regen (there are also plenty of skills for that).

This is a pretty good point, and will probably lead to a discussion that merits its own thread. I have only one argument for introducing "some" regen in act 2.



But let's start in act 1. There's no regen except Vaelis' Recovery or a hunter's Perfect Balance. Neither of these characters can heal the party - and PB even requires the hunter to be healed now and then, so neither offer any real longevity. Even the most clever players have to get used to the idea of not killing everything ASAP and managing their resources, or paying to refill their bars. And this could be the story in act 2 as well. If you are very patient, Riley's Energize can keep you going forever though, but just a little SPR makes that so much easier, especially if that SPR is on Riley (so he doesn't need to Energize himself 24/7). Fast forward to the end of act 2 and the introduction of... Jariel and his Vigorous Sonata. At this point my characters have 175+ mana, I'm gonna guess it's easily 200+ for people less opposed to going 20+ will or taking the Willpower trait.



That means you go from 2 acts of SPR being a rare commodity to your whole team suddenly having 10+ SPR with Jariel around. From this point forward, it should be easy for anyone to regen dance. I've said it before, I hardly think people don't do it because they can't figure it out. VS makes it so readily done; it feels less dirty, it requires less patience. And that means paying for recovery could be a habit of the past, that you cast the spells you want to cast with little thought for having mana for the next 5 battles - that you practically outgrow mana problems altogether. Do we want the game to develop in this direction? That's the question to consider.



If the answer is yes, then there should be some SPR in act 2, as a stepping stone between the 0 and 10+ SPR of acts 1 and 3. If the answer is no, then Vigorous Sonata hasn't been nerfed enough.



An important issue to decide on, I think. Creating the armor sets should however be a topic of much less controversy, so maybe we could get on that? ^^

The Lugal mercs dropped this during the first quest in v0.8.24.8. (no, I don't mean Vaelis)

Show Spoiler

http://oi61.tinypic.com/x3zpzp.jpg" style="max-width:100%">

I'm a bit of a scatterbrain today (among other days) so excuse my stupid question: With the fixed shop items, are we aiming at guaranteeing items such as this that may or may not be randomly dropped by mercs available to all who can afford it and to hell with luck or should this handful of fixed awesomeness available in future really be better than anything found elsewhere?



... For stores.... just add some poison resistance to that plate, reduce the speed penalty by one more point and voila...pretty good for a level 7 item. (imho)

Pretty good for a level 7 item? It's comparable to the level 11-12 plate mails I have on my end of act 2 save.



I told myself I'd stop asking Jack if a change that seemed to have happened was just undocumented, but I guess I don't even need to ask: Merc droprates lowered, but item quality increased. I noticed getting very few items from my last wave of merc clears (in 24., but almost all of them were masterwork.



Anyway from my perspective, the idea of the store sets is to provide a guaranteed minimum quality of gear that is "decent", not to make drops and randomly generated store items suck by default.

An important issue to decide on, I think. Creating the armor sets should however be a topic of much less controversy, so maybe we could get on that? ^^

hehe. as soon as I have a working Act 2 party and some spare time I will throw in my wish list.

Yes sorry, I don't remember if I documented the change beside the post in forum I did which probably was lost/buried. In practice I tried this: instead of 2-3 standard armors with 50% probability to drop, you could get 1 very good armor with 10% probability.

However, if it's too much I can always change that, it was an experiment. Reverting back to old version, or simply keeping low item drop but not Rare (maybe Quality/Masterwork only), will take me 1 minute (just a search/replace)

Not going to add regen to armors or do any other big changes now. Removing existing stats = OK. Adding new stats or other big changes (for the game) nope sorry.

Done (http://datamining-fuer-anfaenger.de/foo/ww-armour1.jpg http://datamining-fuer-anfaenger.de/foo/ww-armour2.jpg)

That means you go from 2 acts of SPR being a rare commodity to your whole team suddenly having 10+ SPR with Jariel around.

maybe an idea for the SP regen transition: Before every arena fight the slave master gives the party 3 regen potions (10 turns, +5SPR) with the words "We want thrilling fights. The potions are only to be used in the arena!" - it should be quite easy to realize that the potions remain in the inventory, for later/better use When the players get 10-15 "one-shot regen items" we have the gentle development from 0 SPR to Jariel.

Not going to add regen to armors or do any other big changes now. Removing existing stats = OK. Adding new stats or other big changes (for the game) nope sorry.

Done (http://datamining-fuer-anfaenger.de/foo/ww-armour1.jpg http://datamining-fuer-anfaenger.de/foo/ww-armour2.jpg)

Yes but the blank space!! it looks ugly A stat must be removed to praise the god of alignment and layouts!

I guess probably could remove attack, since is the stat less likely to be associated to an ARMOR

edit: I just realized that we should remove 2

Actually (too much heat so brain is slow...) why you added two extra stats that we just agreed should be rare ? adding SP/HP regen to armor is quite nonsense to me. Players are just going to see it 0 / 0 the whole time. HP/SP should be on jewelry ONLY... the item category with less slots after weapons.

Starting a little on the weapons, and only the types I buy. I'm thinking two versions, if we need to have versions at all. The stores will change which version is in stock on the family slave day. I call them versions and not entirely separate items because I'm keeping the name as they upgrade. Not going so hardcore as filling out the complete form yet though. All +stats are over the base item, not over "0 in every stat". Also all these weapons cause normal damage.



By the way, any chance of easily implementing flavor/lore text for items? It would really spice the game up.



Quarterstaff: Dunespire

v1: 11 damage, +12 stats

v2: 13 damage, +15 stats

It is a matter of honor that a Galanna enchanter craft their own staff. Once they've created something better, the old one goes on the market.



Warhammer: Lugal Skullcrusher

v1: 29 damage, +12 stats

v2: 32 damage, +15 stats

Traditionally covered in enough brain tissue to feed a zombie or two.



Club: Cactus Branch

v1: 18 damage, +10 stats

v2: 21 damage, +12 stats

Kiduu alchemy can turn anything into a weapon.



Heavy Crossbow: Gameshi Handcannon

v1: 21 damage, +12 stats

v2: 25 damage, +15 stats

The name was earned after a spectacular incident involving an explosive potion attached to a crossbow bolt.



I think there should be predefined swords and axes, both 2h and 1h, and a dagger. Perhaps also an arbalest and a long bow. The thing is, I always look for the highest damage weapons. If anyone buys these weapons that I don't, you're gonna have to design them too, because I don't know what you find attractive about them



Opinions on the names also welcome. I'm trying to go with a desert/Dingirra theme.