renke_
Aug 13, 2014
We could even make it a regular rule that boosting from an effect reduces the duration.
this is even worse: if you're staggered ask someone to hit you to revocer faster
I still like a wait for bla action, to adjust the impact it is not necessarily needed to nerf this function but to create some other balancing mechanism. What about delaying skills? When selected it takes some ticks before the action is dealt - when the char is damaged while preparing the skill is interrupted. I see many problems with UI (how can the delay displayed transparent), but it would allow new tactics (small dmg but fast attacks are more important)
yayswords
Aug 13, 2014
New item on the wishlist: An ability that debuffs an enemy so that attacks against it will steal life. (Diablo 2: Life Tap)
Oh oh oh and offensive dispels! As in, remove buffs from enemies.
renke_
Aug 13, 2014
and some kind of "helpful debuff" (I stole the idea from a dark-age RPG (forgot the name, this was 20 years ago or so)): The engine allowed exactly one debuff, to fight monsters with ugly abilities (uncurable poisoning) one had to curse the own party before the encounter, with some less deadly spell (e.g. a semi-permanent slow).
"Paradox Benediction": Lowers HP and SP regen by 1 and reduces attack by 10 % for 6 turns. While the condition is active the char is immune to all debuffs.
renke_
Aug 13, 2014
cross-post, in the SotW thread it fulfilled the role to make fun of yayswords' dancing lessons, here it's meant as serious skill idea:
"
mostly unrelated (and probably better for the Loren 2 skill thread) but your "extreme encounter design" got me thinking - would it be possible to design skills working like a dead man's switch? I think of (no idea why ^^) "Otherwordly Drain" (Character binds own soul to the battle field, when K.O. the delayed curse lowers SP Regen of all enemies by 100 % for 8 turns.).
"
I see the utility more for buffs, after a heroic death the immortal energy of life heartens the companions in arms to fight even harder* (+20% attack and defence for 5 turns)
*) file under high-fantasy pop babble
Anima_
Aug 14, 2014
A big "wait chain" can be disastrous for yourself as well. What if the first guy gets staggered? Nobody can act until he can.
That would certainly constitute a drawback towaiting but wouldn't solve the problem, see downwards.
Also, why is it 2.0? What's 1.0? Take the shortest shittiest action possible? 
Kids these days. 1.0 was static (with lots of flashing clashing colours), 2.0 is dynamic.
there's no interaction there. If you let A, B and C "DoT up" one monster and then have D spread all those DoT's, that's interaction.
Well someone obviously created the boost condition for you, so there's your interaction.
this is even worse: if you're staggered ask someone to hit you to revocer faster
Like I said that doesn't bother me much. At least if it's the only drawback.
I still like a wait for bla action, to adjust the impact it is not necessarily needed to nerf this function but to create some other balancing mechanism. What about delaying skills? When selected it takes some ticks before the action is dealt - when the char is damaged while preparing the skill is interrupted. I see many problems with UI (how can the delay displayed transparent), but it would allow new tactics (small dmg but fast attacks are more important)
The problem is actually really simple. An actions stagger value determines if the attack staggers in the first place and for how long. The wait mechanic shouldn't make the duration of the stagger irrelevant. That's what I'm trying to solve. And the solution probably shouldn't be that the player is to afraid to wait.
New item on the wishlist: An ability that debuffs an enemy so that attacks against it will steal life. (Diablo 2: Life Tap)
That would be possible with the new reaction part of the framework. Probably a mark though.
Oh oh oh and offensive dispels! As in, remove buffs from enemies.
Definitely.
and some kind of "helpful debuff" (I stole the idea from a dark-age RPG (forgot the name, this was 20 years ago or so)): The engine allowed exactly one debuff, to fight monsters with ugly abilities (uncurable poisoning) one had to curse the own party before the encounter, with some less deadly spell (e.g. a semi-permanent slow).
"Paradox Benediction": Lowers HP and SP regen by 1 and reduces attack by 10 % for 6 turns. While the condition is active the char is immune to all debuffs.
The number of buffs and debuffs will be limited, probably to three each. Not sure how the displacement will work though, so maybe.
would it be possible to design skills working like a dead man's switch? I think of (no idea why ^^) "Otherwordly Drain" (Character binds own soul to the battle field, when K.O. the delayed curse lowers SP Regen of all enemies by 100 % for 8 turns.).
That was the reasoning behind the reaction mechanic in the first place. Of course I was thinking more about exploding enemies and the like.
renke_
Aug 14, 2014
The number of buffs and debuffs will be limited, probably to three each. Not sure how the displacement will work though, so maybe.
the mechanics were not about displacement but filling the debuff slot - so you had to trade off a deliberate "eigen-curse" against the next encounter. In Loren/SotW this could be adopted as "all existing conditions remain active, but the the protective debuff blocks new conditions"
The wait mechanic shouldn't make the duration of the stagger irrelevant.
what if stagger fulfills more than the debuff role? the unpredictable stumbling of the enemy could be used as hook for riposte (maybe as a Skill vs Skill comparison)
Anima_
Aug 14, 2014
the mechanics were not about displacement but filling the debuff slot - so you had to trade off a deliberate "eigen-curse" against the next encounter. In Loren/SotW this could be adopted as "all existing conditions remain active, but the the protective debuff blocks new conditions"
So the effect would take one of the curse slots, leaving all boon slots free and protects the target from any and all curses?
what if stagger fulfills more than the debuff role? the unpredictable stumbling of the enemy could be used as hook for riposte (maybe as a Skill vs Skill comparison)
Stagger as planned doesn't debuff at all. Instead it prevents the target from getting it's turn until it's over and allows for boosting.
Of course we could derive the boost bonus from the stagger duration. That would actually make a lot of sense.
renke_
Aug 14, 2014
So the effect would take one of the curse slots, leaving all boon slots free and protects the target from any and all curses?
more or less (the nearest reengineered equivalent for the $darkagerpg engine). modifications could be interesting, though - the skill "Become
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalit"; no condition will ever reach/touch the char when the skill is in effect (both positive and negative conditions)
Stagger as planned doesn't debuff at all.
ah yes, I knew there was some quite important change
I vote for a name change as the concept is very different to the condition we know currently as staggered
yayswords
Aug 14, 2014
How about a single-target taunt? Forcing the victim's next action to be an offensive one targeted on the taunter.
Also probably not a programming challenge, but a brief "Mass Guard" ability (even on front row) to allow one character to martyr things up.
Anima_
Aug 14, 2014
more or less (the nearest reengineered equivalent for the $darkagerpg engine). modifications could be interesting, though - the skill "Become https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalit"; no condition will ever reach/touch the char when the skill is in effect (both positive and negative conditions)
That sounds like a start.
ah yes, I knew there was some quite important change I vote for a name change as the concept is very different to the condition we know currently as staggered
That was the original way stagger worked, the debuffs were added later. Though suggestions for different names are always welcome.
How about a single-target taunt? Forcing the victim's next action to be an offensive one targeted on the taunter.
Yeah that could be done with a Mark, forcing the marked target to only attack the marker, or use a non offensive action.
Also probably not a programming challenge, but a brief "Mass Guard" ability (even on front row) to allow one character to martyr things up.
I'm actually thinking of only allowing you to guard one person. But that's a question for when we know how deadly the system turns out to be.
renke_
Aug 25, 2014
not directly related to mechanics and not "crazy and unorthodox" (Anima, you can stop reading this
)
I would like to see more faster skills - currently most of the skills do more damage but the delay is also much higher. My two prime examples are Ice Spike (delay 12) and Magic Chains (15), I use both spells often more because of the speed debuff, the direct damage is less important (or not the primary function).
Why not design abilities that are less deadly (in absolute values) but repeatable more often? Say Flurry of Blows - described as "very fast", needed time is 133% of a normal melee attack; a delay of 5 and damage reduced to 80% or so would make a fun new (and different) skill.
Oh, and more skills with debuff effects as main result, newer chars (everything developed later than Home erectus classes like Druid, Ranger and Mercenary) have some of them (think Kick/Pull, Slumber, Jariel's offensive songs) but I would love to see fast and short debuffs usable for surgical warfare: Water Nail (Water base damage, Frozen for 1 round); Lame Cripple (75% dmg, Slowed for 2 turns)
jack1974
Aug 25, 2014
Yes that's interesting. I could do something like this:
http://i.imgur.com/rG5ql0A.jpg" style="max-width:100%">
with the fixed turn system of SOTW though not sure it would be *that* different, but with a global timer, yes for sure
renke_
Aug 25, 2014
yes, I thought in this direction. another example is Vaelis - though his skills are not that exciting (he's part of the old-school LotW-inspired Neanderthal crowd ^^) most of his skill are fast (only 3 >= 10, only one over 15) and "surgical" (i.e. one target). In my parties he's nearly never the fastest char but he can act more often - give him Cripple and Kick and he would be [nearly] an archetype for what I have in mind :D
renke_
Oct 19, 2014
currently I'm playing Shadowrun Returns (I don't believe in monogamery) and like the approach to healing and damage - the game keeps track of the last wound and magic is only able to heal this one, for curing more than the last hit finite and sparse items are needed. Additional to this healing mechanics at the end of an encounter the last wound is also healed.
jack1974
Oct 19, 2014
Hey there! Yes I play other games too to "take inspiration"
That mechanic is interesting indeed, I never thought about it. In general if you read my latest blog, in future RPGs more than quantity will try to aim for quality (of skills, item, characters,etc).
If I think about the games I've played with the most interesting battle systems, they all have simple mechanics and few variables (XCOM, Banner Saga, etc). I want to make more combos, "openings", "opportunities" and so on, and have fewer enemies but more varied.
