Yes that's a good question, I would probably need a save (or I can try to look for similar items myself)

he, I think I found it: The function doesn't compare Attack for amour pieces The difference between the two items is <diff magic>+<diff burning>/10.



A python shell calculates -2/10 as -1 -- with the result 1+(-1)=0 -> The items are identical according to your comparison

Ah yes, because time ago I didn't had attack bonus on armors. I wasn't even considering Magic!

Cool will fix it now

regen items are more rare than love between Krimm and Riley.

I'm sitting on like 25 SPR total across the party with the act 2 gambling done. Just don't wanna go down to "a few points on a few legendaries" from that. ^^

and here we are at a quite important "strategic decision point". In the http://www.winterwolves.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=3410#p26681 you already explained that you will never go above 20 Will and later (don't find the post) you even said that your attribute point investment in Will was an error because of the regen capabilities of Jariel and items (hope I remember your point correctly). So now you're a quite extreme player (gold exclusively used for equpiment upgrades, delaying encounter wins for regeneration, shop mousewheeling until the perfect set of items is available), less focused users call it a day and simply go on with larger SP pools and tavern visits.



Not sure if there's a *right* way to solve this, but here a a few possibilities:

* keep the current system. Lazy players (=me ) have worse equipment/lower XP but the benefit of less invested time, everyone else can use the roll-back for optimizing the results (encounters, shops, whatever)

* remove regen capabilities completely (or nearly completely) - no more regen items except some static quest stuff (e.g. unique items for Riley and Krimm), maybe nerfing the regen skills. This would probably mean that it isn't possible anymore to clean all optional encounters (but this could be seen as an improvement: The twins are not half-gods but "accidental heroes")

* some middle way (I still like the idea of more fixed items, but I don't know if they can be balanced and if all player groups are happy with the result...)

How about a lot of regen items for sale by default (and none randomly) but perhaps even more expensive? Actually I don't think they need to be more expensive, but putting it out there.



That way you can buy the amount you want and if you can't get it all you can get better at managing your economy perhaps that is a legitimate challenge, not a test of patience like the casino is.



P.S. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that getting 20 will is a mistake. If I have, I don't stand by it now at least. All my characters have 20 will, except Krimm who has 15

fixed static regen items could be also restricted to jewellery without any other boni, so the player has to decide if (s)he wants to have regen or other item attributes like magic, attack, ...

I'm pretty sure I haven't said that getting 20 will is a mistake. If I have, I don't stand by it now at least. All my characters have 20 will, except Krimm who has 15

I meant http://www.winterwolves.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=3400&p=26675#p26675 (probably...) and if this was the one I twisted your words (shame on me) as you said everything except const is not exciting (but another fine example of different play styles: I don't ignore attributes because my party will be categorically equipped with "mad +magic +speed" items )

All those problems are because there's this "rollback". In a normal RPG not made with Ren'Py, or if I disable rollback (moauhaha :mgreen so it becomes like a standard RPG, you have no problems. In Diablo 3 you can't rollback when you enter the shops but you have to buy the best equipment available AT THE MOMENT. This rollback screws up everything, is like in another RPG you could hit a "cheat" button unlimited time to re-roll the equipment. NO OTHER RPG works like that, also because it would break the whole system.



After some thinking I'm not going to change this. I won't disable rollback but I don't consider that a "normal player behaviour" sorry

Yes but in Diablo shops are not my main source of equipment. Like I said in the first post, I wouldn't mind rollback being removed if the shops sold decent stuff by default. But they don't.



For the record... I'm pretty sure Diablo shops reset if you re-enter town.

Diablo was an example At least on the PS3, I basically almost never had a good item on a shop. I found the best one by killing opponents.

I think your concept of "decent" is screwed though: because you continuously rollback, you always go for Rare items, and you always raise the bar continuously. So obviously every shop sucks, if you have an equipment like nobody else I saw in saves. If you rollback on shop1 for 50 times until you get HP/SP regen, then of course on next shop is hard that you get such an item, unless you repeat the process again.

I believe renke,fabula, etc play normally and see what's in the shop and AFAIK they still manage to win the battles in Nightmare without having super equipment (all Rare items with regen lol).



I prefer to play the games using what's available, maybe buy some good stuff but surely not go insane if I don't have all rare items on my 8 members party

I found the best one by killing opponents.

But in SotW, random loot is as (un)likely to be good as the store items are.



Here's the thing. I could play without the roulette. I'd still lick maps clean without using taverns or potions (except act 1). I already did it before I realized I could buy SPR in act 2. It was unbelievably slow and painful, but I can regen dance everyone to full mana with only Riley's Energize. If I can then beat any given pack, I can beat any sequence of packs.



But what am I going to do with all my gold? I roulette my way to these vastly expensive SPR items, and I still sit on tons of it. If I can beat everything without spending gold on consumables or taverns, that should be rewarded. I shouldn't be able to acquire more gold than I can spend. But I can, and I go to your shops that are 90% full of junk even on a good roll, and I just don't have enough upgrades to buy, yet this is the only thing I can spend gold on.



yayswords playing act 2 "normally" would give you this design problem: Hello Jack. I'm about to start act 3. I have 20,000 gold. Can you design a skill that allows me to throw it at enemies, because I can't seem to find any other use for it.

Yes but in Diablo shops are not my main source of equipment.

this

Diablo was an example

I can't remember a RPG (with the exception of Rogue-likes*) where item upgrades are totally dependend on the RNG Gods - fixed** better equipment should be available in every play-trough (drops or shops)



*) I like those games, but they are completely out of scope here and Winterwolves's games aren't (and shouldn't ^^) comparable with this category

**) for different kinds of "fixed", but randomized *better* equipment is much easier to create when the item has not a gazillion attributes ^^



PS I don't play nightmare, my RL is creepy enough

Ah well then if that's the problem I can reduce the amount of gold you get playing!

Jokes apart I never checked if gold was enough or low. I can reduce it more so that "buying a rare item" feels like something instead of "I just have 2000 gold but I don't want to use it".



Define "junk" also. I just loaded one of your save and entered that Trinket'n'treasures shop, and found at least 10 items (distributed between the various members of course) that were better than current equip. If by junk you mean "not Rare and that is super powerful" then yes, in shops there can be a few of those items, but not always.



I don't know how to solve this. If I change it so that shops only sell items "fine to rare", would that help ? don't know I surely can't change the item randomization, nor I have time to manually create 500+ items like I did with Loren.



Loren also didn't had item levels, was easier to spot good items? Maybe all the new features I added on SOTW only made things worse, lol next time won't do that and save my time! nothing worse than working like a crazy to only get worse results...

Hello Jack. I'm about to start act 3. I have 20,000 gold. Can you design a skill that allows me to throw it at enemies, because I can't seem to find any other use for it.

I'm totally in love with this: New weapon cat sling, usable by Krimm, ammunition is one coin wrapper (15 gold) per shot

Ah well then if that's the problem I can reduce the amount of gold you get playing!

You could probably at least nerf the Lugal loot. Not only do their frequent plate drops sell for tons, they also mean I don't really buy plate armor/leggings because I count on them to give me.



If you nerf my income I will probably roulette less for SPR yes. Still would want items worth my gold though, but I sure wouldn't hoard 40 SPR because "I'm rich enough to afford semi-convenience".

found at least 10 items (distributed between the various members of course) that were better than current equip.

Not sure which save that is. But by "better" do you only mean green background? I can tell you I don't quite value Weakened resistance on my mages quite as much as the game thinks I should



Lots of +armor, +attack, +magic or +speed is what I'd typically consider to be not junk.

I don't know how to solve this. If I change it so that shops only sell items "fine to rare", would that help ?

Item quality isn't as huge a factor as the "primary affix". A rare water resistance ring is most likely gonna be less attractive than a normal +speed ring.



As for Loren, no I don't think you did anything bad between them. I think Loren hard was just so easy I didn't bother whoring over gear.

please be careful with reduced income: not everyone optimizes encounters (max amount of enemies), at the end of Act 2 my party doesn't drown in gold and sellable items (no example values, my end-Act-2 savegames crash with "could not find label c:\\[..]/scene14_shacklesplit.rpy" )

not everyone optimizes encounters (max amount of enemies)

That could be an interesting topic in itself. I'd contend that it's a legitimate way to increase risk and reward. It's still a reroll though.

Yes by better I meant green background, and they had + attack, speed etc, not the resistances



I guess I can reduce the amount of items drop from enemies. I'll do it so that you can get some powerful items but are rare to get. Makes no sense to fill player's inventory with garbage items that will be good only to resell them. I'll try that, enemies dropping more good stuff but in less quantity.

oh, I never meant this would be some kind of bug using or so, it is a matter-of-fact statement about the different ways to play SotW. I believe your approach is alright, but I wouldn't like it if I have to follow your example when Jack reduces my income

No the income should still be good, but instead of getting, say, 2 "standard" platemail, you'll get 1 masterwork one with less frequency. Still the masterwork one would cost 1500+ gold, and if you sell it you'll still make plenty of money, but in the first testing I did, in many occasion was better than what I was wearing already. So at least from battles you get good equipment now

please be careful with reduced income: not everyone optimizes encounters (max amount of enemies), at the end of Act 2 my party doesn't drown in gold and sellable items

I bet there are enough players who do not even fight all the enemies that are there on the map, let alone reroll. I mean, there's no obligation to go fight the mercs at the red arrows after delivering the invitations. Even the invitation quest doesn't require one to fight mercs at every single red arrow on the territory (except for Lugal)



I'm not rolling in gold at the end of act 2, either. However, I do confess that this is because I stock up with bombs and potions and scrolls at the very end of the act when they are cheapest to buy in quantity (reputation benefits )

Nothing against less loot but more usability from enemy encounters.