Heh what you say is really cool. About actually implementing it... hmm it's a lot of work... I don't know, I would like to finish this game within 2007

KnockOut,



I don't think your giving jack1974 enough credit. Sure we all have tons of suggestions that we would like to see implemented into the game (myself included), because we want this to be a kickass game. However, even without our input I think jack1974 is more then capable of making a very quality and very entertaining CRPG.



Let him work his magic and after he releases the full game, we can then supply him with ideas. He is one of the very few developers that listens to gamer's feedback and implements them into future upgrades. You can be sure that when the final product has had its last update most of our suggestions will have been applied one way or another. Be patient and let the man create.

Heh, no problems about his suggestions. However, while I understand completely what he means, some things are really hard to implement on a game, in practice every character class should be REALLY different, and that would take lot of time, which unfortunately right now I don't have

But making suggestions never hurts - of course I won't follow all the advices I get, otherwise as I said I wouldn't finish the game before end of this year!!

As you said, I can always make updates. Even better, this kind of game I think would be well suited for expansions packs

As I told you for other games like USM2, I suggest you start low. Making a game like Dungeon Master is really a lot of work by itself, then if you even try to implement all those different classes, you'll finish it in 2009, which is bad.

Bad, because I want to play such a game soon, very soon!



BTW what's wrong with the classic cleric with a mace?

Just a tentatively final list of suggestions:



Follow the rules of economics! Scarcity of resources! No unlimited sources of xp or gold(no unlimited generated monsters)

Don't inflate the gameplay(don't make each level of the tower too big to try to make the game seem longer than you've put the effort in)

Remember if the game has only twelve monsters but if I have to save/reload a bunch of times trying different strategies and equipment combos that's a lot more gameplay than if I can just beat the game the first time through.



For example, in ADOM you can do the lower levels over and over again so only the beginning of the game is a challenge because you can just gather levels and resources until you're ready for the end levels. In Shining Force, you can just egress and do the first few levels over and over to keep gaining experience.

Well about that, you can be sure I will! I have in mind to put breakable item! yes even weapons and armor... <evil laugh> one of the thing I hate more in such rpg is finding the "ultimate superblade" so you never even look at other weapons anymore.

Of course some weapon will be more resistant, and I plan to make them deteriorate as long as you use them in combat. That would mean that you could want to save the great spear for the next big monster.

This also would mean that fighters should specialize in more than one weapon type, to avoid being stuck using a crap sword only because they don't have a high blunt weapon skill...

"They sent in a stealth spy just for kicks. You now have your two hands. Good luck."

Well I think jack means that at least very basic weapons will be always available, like normal swords, maces, etc. If there will be a village to go refurnish after each level (diablo/fate style) you can always make new low-level weapons reappear.

I have another suggestion though: what about a serie of "mercenaries" or heroes ? like in suikoden games. You have a finite number of character to explore the dungeon, so anytime you go back to your home village you can rebuild your party.

That opens the game to new strategies. For example one level there could be some really tough long-range fighting monsters, so you should make your party only with long-range classes like rangers or spellcasters.

I think this would be a great idea!

Also maybe like in Magic Candle series you could assign a task to the character that remains in the town, to build up certain skills of them. This would add a sort of "management" element to the game.



Please consider those suggestions

Hmm yes yours is a very good suggestion. I could ship the game with some ready made characters and let users create their own. That would be cool, because users would be able also to do some powerleveling of their own low characters... ahah could be interesting

Expanding on the mercarny idea I really liked the way it was done in Mordor 1 and Mordor II in theory. You could have one character in one level of the dungeon log in to another character and then have them meet and trade. So if your fighter couldn't beat a monster, you made a wizard and then had him beat the enemy.



How this could apply to Tower of Destiny is that you can create as many characters as you want but the dungeon changes based on the actions of each character and the characters can trade with one another. The Tower of Destiny resets once you beat the game with one of the characters and you lose all your current characters. Remember the creatures in the tower have to be finite for this to work(This is why it didn't work in Mordor I and II).



On powerleveling My vote is for level 1 to not be that different from level 10. A level 1 character should be able to beat the game if he has the right equipment, potions, etc. And every monster should be a challenge to a level 10 character.



You said earlier that every character gets an ability every level. How about instead of level one being lightning bolt power I and level 2 being lightning bolt power II etc. each ability is tangential to each other. So a wizard gets lightning bolt at level one(that doesn't increase in power as you level) a poison attack at level two(not stronger than lightning bolt just tangential to lightning as poison does damage over time rather than all at once) drain life at level three, etc.



To ensure that all abilities are equal you could have all 10 abilities be available at level one and the user could control which ability he gets every level.

On powerleveling My vote is for level 1 to not be that different from level 10. A level 1 character should be able to beat the game if he has the right equipment, potions, etc. And every monster should be a challenge to a level 10 character.

What? this makes no sense. A level 1 character should be the same as level 10? then leveling (the essence of RPG) wouldn't make sense at all!

Also from what you say it seems that you consider the game a singleplayer rpg... it is party-based rpg, from what jack said.

Yes the game is going to be a party rpg, of course.

This time I don't agree with you KnockOut. Mastro is right, what would be the purpose of leveling if a character level 1 wouldn't be much different from level 10 ?

Also, "every monster should be a challenge to level 10" is just not possible. Every rpg game has low level monsters, and as you go deeper into the game there are bigger ones.

I can surely make some interesting combo of spells/resistances, and so on to make a fight's result less obvious, but I can't make a level10 have hard time to fight a simple "sewer rat"

How about monsters that adapt to the environment... like the .01% of the germs not killed by antibacterial soaps? They level up with you? Just a neat thought and I'll go back to my corner now.

Yes but with plot-based game I'm not sure it would work well. In the next Magic Stones the gather artifact monsters levelup accordingly to the druid level. But if I make a plot in theory the number of monster is finite, so I should have more control to which monsters the player will encounter and when.

Of course I can always do a check and raise some enemy stats based on how well the player is doing, to break his morale.... MOUHAHAH

Yay! Plot! Number of monsters=finite! Control of which monsters players encounter and when! Yes! Yes! Yes!



However, it doesn't seem like Jack likes writing plots and storylines very much based on previous games. So I'd reccomend keeping the text to a minimum and rely on the visuals and atmosphere to tell the story.



Now for a tangent...



It seems like the RPG is missing something without the classic "geek" skill known as Charisma...



Charisma could work like it does in say UBM. The higher your charisma, the more sponsors you receive and the more money they give you(Kings, businesses, etc. can all give adventurers sponsors). And it could work like UG where higher charisma makes your team perform better.



But also there could be combination moves. For example, a wizard could use fireball to set the fighters arrows on fire. Explaining how to combine assaults can require eloquent language so the more charisma you have the better you can explain how to combine tactics. How many highly intelligent and wise people can't explain their ideas?



Other combinations could be a cleric adding a turn undead rune to a fighter's sling and then a wizard adding an exploding element to the rock. So when the rock hits the target it explodes and casts turn undead on the surrondings.

However, it doesn't seem like Jack likes writing plots and storylines very much based on previous games. So I'd reccomend keeping the text to a minimum and rely on the visuals and atmosphere to tell the story.

Ehm no, actually I like writing them, but since english is not my native language I have some troubles coming up with nice descriptions... this time probably I'll use a professional translator. However I also hate boring LONG text, so it will be a middleway probably.



Your other ideas are cool, I'll think how hard they'll be to include in the initial 1.0 release ...

I read your latest blog entry about tower of destiny and it reminded me of a characteristic I would want to adjust in an RPG. That all races aren't adept at all classes. An orc should be able to be a wizard, a warrior, etc. An orc wizard should just be a lot different from an elf one. An orc could have different spells. An orc wizard shouldn't be a fighter/spellcaster hybrid but rather a spellcaster from a unique orc perspective. He should have violent orc spells.



Similarly the elf fighter. He should play to the more intelligent aspects of fighting and utilize his quickness.



Now the humans, most of the time they are forgotten about and underutilized. I don't like humans as a sort of jack of all trades. I think humans should have their own unique culture transplanted into each of their classes.



An orc wizard should play differently than an elf wizard and a human wizard. Each should have culturally influenced spells and abilities.



As it stands now there would be no reason for me not to take the best race for each class and make that my six person party.

I'll implement some of what you say even if not for every race. I like the idea of specific cultural skills and I'll try to implement them. As I plan to make this serie a sort of trilogy, for sure once I have made the main engine in the first episode, I'll be able to concentrate on cultural-class differences when character reach higher levels in future episode of the game.

It might seem an excuse, but already having the game done with my main basic classes before this christmas will be already a great result



But yours is a good suggestion, and while I don't want to change the ATTRIBUTES of each class (an orc is stronger than an elf - for sure), I could implement unique fighting skills for example for the various races.



I'm still planning everything: maybe if doesn't take away too much time I could even implement all those differences starting from this 1st episode already!

I know your still in the planning stage of production, but when you get to the actual design phase are you going to have an open beta (or alpha) release so players can give you feedback?



Also, how flexible (if that is the right word?) are you going to make this game? My favorite playing style is purely warrior-based (I will only use magic or thievery if absolutely necessary and as a last resort), so I should be able to compose a party with all warrior-type players and still be able to beat every quest and the game. Likewise, people who only like spellcasters should be able to compose a party as such and be able to beat every quest and the game. Sure, a certain type of party might have a better chance to win a particular quest (mission), but the point is any combination should have a good chance. That way players who don't like customizing can use the same party over and over, and even though it might be a bit harder they can still have fun and beat the game.

Well since I make shareware, luckily I can always change the game based on user feedback, like happened with UBM or Magic Stones (this last version is quite different from the original one!).



About flexibility, this I don't know, having a party based ONLY on warriors is a bit strange, isn't it?

Anyway for the quest/enemies I plan to make some sort of counterattack / weak or strong points, because this works well but I'll be able to implement it for both caster/fighters.



Example:

Monster Ice Golem: vulnerable to fire spells, but also to a flame sword



Or also quest related:

Iron door: you can open it with "open door" spell, with a thief, or bashing it open (but you'll need a very big strong orc to do it)



And so on, so I think you should be able to make your unique (at least from a RPG point of view) party of all warriors!