jack1974
Jul 15, 2016
So... I'm thinking about setting up a Patreon page. I know what you're thinking "this fool saw the news about that Patreon adult game making $40k/month and now wants to setup a page too"
No, it's not that. Also at least initially it wouldn't be to fund development of a hentai game.
The thing is simple:
First, feeding my pets costs me about $600-650/month (depends on currency conversion) and recently has become a bit tougher for indies. So if I could get a few extra money a month it wouldn't hurt
And rarely I got people telling me to make a way to accept donation (yes, seems incredible but happened!).
Second, I get CONSTANTLY people asking for more erotic stuff. I don't want to do it on my own site or Steam, because I don't want people to publicly associate myself/my site with that. However, if I could post the "naughty stuff" in a separate site (the Patreon page obviously) things would be very different !
Third, I personally have nothing against it, rather the opposite, I consider tasteful erotica a work of art (see Milo Manara images for example).
I haven't committed myself on anything yet, but I was thinking to setup that page, so people who wanted to help can help (for a trivial sum). Then I could do what other people do and offer rewards (not necessarily all NSFW!) like wallpapers or extra/bonus/exclusive stuff (for example, the unused Nicole yuri CG that were already commissioned years ago...). Or do some sexy comics (maybe a way to continue telling Vera Blanc story could be with a comic?). Perhaps do a hentai version of one of my upcoming SMALLER games. Normal version on my site, and then the hot thing with a patch or exclusively on Patreon.
For now I definitely don't plan to use it to fun an exclusive hentai game, because making a game still takes a lot of time, so for now I don't want to do it
Pace675
Jul 15, 2016
Very interesting, and I have no issues using Patreon. And to add food for though (I know keeping Winter Wolf Label very respectable is extremely important to you), with that said. Using Patreon as a funds booster (under a different label like Black Wolf or whatever name you choose) while expanding your development areas ie more fanservice and ahem sexiness. Remember Patreon is a tool and how well it works depends on what you do with it.
First and foremost, have a set goal(s) in mind before launching it, also are there rewards for long term donations? And at what level, is line art included? The list goes on and depending on how many tiers your go for donations is what you should decide on offering at what levels. The most important of all does this include the intent of making new games with more um adult content. you have to be very precise here as not to mislead any of your potential donors.
jack1974
Jul 15, 2016
Yes of course I am planning it carefully, since the last thing I want is to mislead the potential donors (there's a reason if I haven't done any Kickstarter so far!).
I think will go with something like:
$5+ per month - see new artwork or music as I create the games (new background, sprites, etc) plus some "insider info". This basically for people who just mainly want to support me.
$10+ per month - like above but with uncensored artwork
$15+ per month - like above but with a monthly hentai wallpaper or something similar
then if I decide to go with funding for an hentai version for one of the upcoming games (of course will be possible only for some, depends on artists, etc) I'll think what to do, to be honest I'm not very expert on using Patreon ! I think it should be possible to modify the goals anytime, right?
In practice is more or less what other companies do (like Winged Cloud). Once again the goal is not to make a lot of money but to finally make some people happy and get some extra funding which in this moment could help
Also I'm not sure if I should do it under a different name or not...
jack1974
Jul 15, 2016
Another thing would be to finally have a place to put all the stuff, like images or previews, without the fear of expiring (like all the Loren 2 camp talk images for example). There won't be shortage of content even for the basic tier for sure, with all the various games in progress I have
Pace675
Jul 15, 2016
https://www.patreon.com/razzart
https://www.patreon.com/Geckosart
https://www.patreon.com/unwontedstudios
I some of the peeps I give to, Razz did a KS for her first game and now only use Patreon as a supplement (and reward for supporters same with Unwonton like free cd key a month at a certain reward teir)
I feel you about KS, I can understand the use of KS but after you launch a successful game and use KS to do all of your games that is where you will lose my support. To me KS is to help get you started, or to try something new and daring. But to pass off development costs to supporters makes for a zero responsibility company, not able to stay afloat on their own merits.
With Patreon to me, when I give it is say I support your work and I am encouraging you to do more, 'cause you got skills and deserve extra! (Lol sad thing is I tend to only support Yuri developer only, Otome and Yiao do well enough on there own and this smaller subset needs more love XD)
jack1974
Jul 15, 2016
Haha thanks for the links. I would do a bit of everything like I do with my games, so yuri/yaoi/straight/etc
Franka
Jul 15, 2016
I think it would be important to be transparent about what you're doing. When you talk about using a different name, that seems like misleading people. Of course you can use some sort of fancy extra title to make it clear that this is different from your regular fare, but I don't think it's right to deliberately obfuscate.
If you ever release a game with extra saucy content behind a paywall, you should also be prepared for the extreme backlash of anti-censorship fanatics. They're everywhere, and they're very, very loud (and often rude). Take the negative feedback you got for Loren and multiply by some tens of thousands I'd estimate.
Now, I know this would be a dream scenario, but you also need to consider that if you actually raise a fair monthly amount, you may face some pressure to also deliver something, so take care that you don't get in over your head.
Having said that, I would happily support quality erotica from Winter Wolves, whether games, images or comics. I would probably also support you for regular extras, after all I usually buy the bonus content for your games.
jack1974
Jul 15, 2016
Thanks for the suggestions. Yeah maybe I'll keep my name, since after all I released Loren, and there's optional nudity in that game already. So it's not like it's something I've never done before!
If you ever release a game with extra saucy content behind a paywall, you should also be prepared for the extreme backlash of anti-censorship fanatics. They're everywhere, and they're very, very loud (and often rude). Take the negative feedback you got for Loren and multiply by some tens of thousands I'd estimate.
The thing is, that I could probably get away with normal frontal nudity (with uncensoring patch) on Steam as well, but anything more explicit... nope. I wouldn't want to risk it. So Patreon could be the only way. It's not like I would hide some hot stuff already done behind a paywall, but more like I would ADD extra stuff to normal games, when possible (many artists don't do hentai images).
I guess if I gave away free keys for Steam it should probably be fine, so they get the "normal" game+extra stuff on Patreon, but not pay twice or something.
Now, I know this would be a dream scenario, but you also need to consider that if you actually raise a fair monthly amount, you may face some pressure to also deliver something, so take care that you don't get in over your head.
Yeah, though if I look at the Winged Cloud Patreon (which makes $10k/month!!!
) it's not like they do much things. In practice use that money to fund the development of their games, plus a monthly wallpaper. Maybe it's what I should do myself, and just add some extra stuff for patreon users like they do.
A few other indies I know just use it to fund their development as well, even without anything extra. Whatever I decide to do will be very upfront with it, since that's the important thing after all
pahldus
Jul 15, 2016
Also, one of the Patreons that I supported when I had the money, had a problem in that once you pledged you got access to everything at that level, even though they had not actually given any money as the pledges only go through once a month. Always make sure not to give access or material to anyone until the pledges have cleared. Otherwise people will pledge, get the access and then unpledge right before the pledge would clear. Sorry but people are jerks if they think they can get away with it.
DarkWolf
Jul 15, 2016
I never understood why you never used any of crowdfunding websites for your usual games as it seems like a very good thing for indie companies.
As for erotica I would never support such thing and can only say that I am sad that you decided to go down that way.
Troyen
Jul 15, 2016
Yes of course I am planning it carefully, since the last thing I want is to mislead the potential donors (there's a reason if I haven't done any Kickstarter so far!).
I think will go with something like:
$5+ per month - see new artwork or music as I create the games (new background, sprites, etc) plus some "insider info". This basically for people who just mainly want to support me.
$10+ per month - like above but with uncensored artwork
$15+ per month - like above but with a monthly hentai wallpaper or something similar
Would this be mixing two separate audiences? How many people are like DarkWolf where they want the updates but not the erotica, and how many people would come for the erotica and skip the spoilers?
Maybe you could consider a spin-off label for the hentai games/artwork (if any) so that way the people that want to see it can easily find it and the people that don't can easily stay away. As an example, Hanako Games has a Hanabira label for publishing external games, you could have some kind of wolf-related alternate label to separate your work. But I guess it would depend on the overall composition of your audience.
Sylrissa
Jul 16, 2016
I'd happily support you, my memory isn't the best but I believe a few of us old time fans suggested for you to look at crowd funding sources awhile ago silly!. Though I suppose things weren't as rough on indies back then.
(many artists don't do hentai images).
Also wanted to give my two cents on this, there are actually many reliable artists who don't have a problem with erotic content, that take hentai commission work on a regular basis, you just need to know where to look for them.
jack1974
Jul 16, 2016
Also, one of the Patreons that I supported when I had the money, had a problem in that once you pledged you got access to everything at that level, even though they had not actually given any money as the pledges only go through once a month. Always make sure not to give access or material to anyone until the pledges have cleared. Otherwise people will pledge, get the access and then unpledge right before the pledge would clear. Sorry but people are jerks if they think they can get away with it.
Thanks, I am not sure how that works, need to look at it. I think though that if you do monthly updates, people would keep pledging? I think what you describe is normal, and probably some people will do it, but people who really wants to support won't. Or I can use instead of a monthly subscription just pay for each item (wallpaper or else). Probably the best would be a mix of the two but not sure if it's possible.
I never understood why you never used any of crowdfunding websites for your usual games as it seems like a very good thing for indie companies.
As for erotica I would never support such thing and can only say that I am sad that you decided to go down that way.
Crowdfunding campaigns like Kickstarter takes a lot of effort to get it right. People see some successful ones and think it's enough to put up a page to get lot of money. Nope. I would need to do actual work and so delay the games.
Besides (at least for now) I don't need money to make my games. I wanted to do this thing to finally make people who asked for more sexy stuff happy.
In summary I am not thinking about changing anything - I will still do my usual games. But offer people who want something else a way to do it, paying me for my time (since it's an extra thing normally I wouldn't do, even if I don't have any problem with such contents).
Maybe you could consider a spin-off label for the hentai games/artwork (if any) so that way the people that want to see it can easily find it and the people that don't can easily stay away. As an example, Hanako Games has a Hanabira label for publishing external games, you could have some kind of wolf-related alternate label to separate your work. But I guess it would depend on the overall composition of your audience.
That's a good point
For me is really hard to know! I surely get a lot of people asking me to do more hot stuff, but I also get others saying to keep what I am doing. Basically I only want to make both groups happy without making one of them unhappy. Maybe doing two separate things could be the best.
I'd happily support you, my memory isn't the best but I believe a few of us old time fans suggested for you to look at crowd funding sources awhile ago silly!. Though I suppose things weren't as rough on indies back then.
Yes but Kickstarter mainly? At least that's what I remember. Patreon seems very different to me
Also wanted to give my two cents on this, there are actually many reliable artists who don't have a problem with erotic content, that take hentai commission work on a regular basis, you just need to know where to look for them.
Oh yes, I know about that. For wallpapers or other single images would be fine. I meant that for existing games in progress, I couldn't do it for all - if I decide to offer an "alternate hentai version".
For example: I couldn't do that for Never Forget Me since that artist doesn't draw such things, while I could easily do it for Undead Lily. Actually there are already some full-nude images that I asked the artist to do just in case, but turned out too hot and I wouldn't be able to include in the "regular version"
jack1974
Jul 16, 2016
OK I am thinking to go with Troyen's suggestion: have a Patreon page for my regular/standard games, without any NSFW stuff (maybe sexy stuff, but what you usually find already in my games). Then I'll have a separate one for more hot stuff. It doesn't make sense to mix the two I think.
jack1974
Jul 16, 2016
I made the page:
https://www.patreon.com/winterwolves
As always any kind of feedback is welcome. I put some stuff already (like some Nicole yuri exclusives), though of course it's something I'll keep updating on a regular basis rather than dump everything in a single day
Pace675
Jul 16, 2016
To be the first of many supporters I hope!
jack1974
Jul 16, 2016
Thanks! My pets salutes you
Pace675
Jul 16, 2016
Just a reminder wait till after Patreon releases payment to you before you give out the CD keys or codes, most Patreon people wait 2 days after payment clears (to go over the list manually before awarding this type of stuff,because as it has been mention people will pledge for 29 days then drop the payment just for the free images and yes there are people that do this for every month sad but true).
And yes spinnoff label for the more sexy stuff seems the way to go. ^_^
jack1974
Jul 16, 2016
I actually put in the description that you need to have pledged for 2 months to get the keys for games, since some people even ask for refunds 30 days later
So 2 months is the safest period (you cannot request a refund to get a free key after that time).
Pace675
Jul 16, 2016
Smart man....I missed that some how XD. Now asking for a refund now that is a new low....
