I'm sure many of you will be disappointed in reading this but... I just realized that doing the game has I had planned, not just wouldn't be possible but would be basically FOOLISH

Seriously: 16 characters, and 24 romances !? That's not possible. Either the game would be out in 2020 (and I mean that seriously) or the writing and game quality would be bad.

I just finished SOTW, and even if Loren 2-3 aren't supposed to be same level of detail (the RPG aspect will be less than in SOTW) I still want to have skills and such. So, if each character has just 6 skills (compared to the 12 of SOTW, is half!) it would be 96 different ones.

It's not just only about the writing but even coding it would be nuts. Also with such a big cast, I fear that it wouldn't work well even in the RPG part: for example, there COULDN'T be the character interaction we had in SOTW that lots of people liked, because the writer would have no idea who is present in the party in that specific quest. Sure we could have fixed party members, but then people would complain about using others, etc etc.



In short is not something I think is going to work well, or AT ALL. I don't know what I was thinking when I said I would do it this way probably it was during a pause from working on the RPG and I forgot the insane effort of finishing one



Solution? Well since the party members are 16, I think the best would be the 8 + 8. I'm still thinking about how to do it, probably one of the ideas I had in the beginning was good: two main quests (which will be two games) and one of those solutions:

1) first game with "old characters", not sure which ones but for sure the 8 romanceable + second game with the 8 new ones

2) the opposite of above, first the new characters and then the second game with the 8 old ones

3) in both games, a mix of old+new characters so there are still old ones but some new faces.



I know what you think... BUT WHAT ABOUT THE OLD ROMANCES NOOOOO Well, is not like you won't have the romance, simply it will happen only in one of those two "stories" (I still have a normal CG+pin-up though, that is already done ). The two stories in practice happens in parallel (you have to do one big quest in one, and another big quest in the other) and the player would choose which one Elenor/Saren takes part in. (Of course until both are finished you won't have the choice ).



This way, I think would be POSSIBLE to do both games, still probably in the course of 3-4 years, but at least DO them. As it is now, I think as I said either the result wouldn't be up to the standards, or we would jump out of the window while developing it

soo would loren appear in both?



would be strange not to have her in a loren game

maybe im missing the point but why not have



one game with Saren/Elenor and mostly old cast members

and one game with



a new male/female pc with mostly new cast members



that way no one would have to sit through a Saren/Elenor story without there romance of choice (which would kinda suck), and simultaneously everyone would get to enjoy the new romances with out it conflicting with there past stories. It would also mean people would get a choice of genders in both games which I also think would be better

I don't mind,actually I like that, it allow more spotlight to all the characters ( I was kind of scarred that some of them became more "side quest character" that being part of the main plot) and I also like the fact that one of the game will not have Loren.

I like her and the fact that she was the hero in the first game but I was kind of scarred that she would retake a too big part and that it would have reduced all the other charaters', story wise it would have been logical for the characters to let Loren lead once again and the only way to avoid that would have been to put Loren on the "bench"(kidnap,injure,not here for x reason ,...for a part of the game) but with the slipt she can't have all the spotlight and doesn't have to be put on the bench .



and I love parrallel story



For the romance the only bad thing that would have happen is if the love interest chosen wasn't in Saren/Eleanor last game story wise which will not happened with the current slipt so it's okay .(well if someone decide to stick to one of the old character even the game that the character does not appear it will happen but.... that their choice )

This sounds pretty cool, having them split gives a bigger opportunity for spotlight time, and little is really lost unless you were to start cutting characters , the only question i would have is the

The two stories in practice happens in parallel (you have to do one big quest in one, and another big quest in the other) and the player would choose which one Elenor/Saren takes part in. (Of course until both are finished you won't have the choice ).

part about you choose which one Elenor/Saren takes part in, does that mean you don't do both, just in separate games?

I don't think that this will be a good idea. Because let' s say that the romance with your ONE TRUE waifu ends in part 1, then what are you going to do in part 2? You can say that we can explore new romances in part 2 (which any of us would do), but having no to minimal interaction with your most favorite character is just cruel. How about you split Loren 2 into Elenor' s and Saren' s versions like what you did to Nicole (otome and yuri)? And then you can even split those 2 versions into smaller ones if you so choose.

PS: I personally wouldn't mind to wait for Loren 2. I mean 4 or five years is a long time, but I think any Loren's fans can wait that much. Look at Half Life 3 for example .

one game with Saren/Elenor and mostly old cast members

and one game with



a new male/female pc with mostly new cast members

All the romance scenes with Elenor/Saren and the characters (both old/new) have been already done. I can't add yet another new main character now.

I don't think that this will be a good idea. Because let' s say that the romance with your ONE TRUE waifu ends in part 1, then what are you going to do in part 2?

Romance another one, simple Another PARALLEL STORY. The 2 stories won't be in temporal order, but happen at same time (this will help not creating too much confusion). Also based on this reasoning, so what if Elenor/Saren died in first Loren (since it's one of the MANY POSSIBLE ENDINGS)? why they're still there? what if Loren died, or Karen? Why they're still there?

My kind of games are always about "parallel stories", then the player can think that romancing Rei was their canon, another that romancing the new Selith was another canon, and so on.

The problem is not much the waiting which would be very long, but also that is totally hard to balance a game with just 8 characters (see SOTW... took me MONTHS and were only with 16 I don't think I'll make it. And I prefer to have less active characters than do a poor job.



Ultimately while I want to make fans happy I also need to think about what I *actually* can do with my means. Otherwise I end up like those Kickstarter vaporware games that promise 321 characters and 87623 romances, and then never get finished, or are rushed out turning out to be crap games. I don't want to do that

I like the idea of reducing the scope. Save the "20 characters with 50 romances" for when you can employ a larger team and just focus on delivering a good game that's within your means

Do what you have to do, just BRING US MORE GAMES!

Hehe thanks, that's what I'm planning to do For a moment I lost focus and I thought to be Bioware and have 100 employees and million dollars budget

Okay, so if I understand this right, you will still include all 16 characters (and romances!), but split the game into 2 separate games, so the focus won't be so huge?



1st game - 1st 8 characters/romances

2nd game - 2nd 8 characters/romances



Is this correct?



If yes, then I'm okay with it!

Yes exactly. With less characters to romance, there will be more dialogues for each one, or to use a movie terminology, more "screen time". Of course other characters could be present in the story (like Apolimesho, or even other characters in general) but not have special dialogues nor be available in party.

By reducing to 8 in each game the romanceable characters and relative dialogues, and the availability in party, writer surely can do a better job, and I can do a better job as well in balancing the party, designing skills, etc (which take as much as writing if not more ).



For those who like RPGs with "big parties", once both stories are done, I wouldn't mind doing a DLC in which you can use ALL the characters (without romance though!), since by that point I have already done the coding/designing work so it wouldn't take me 1-2 years more

Curious which are getting removed then?. since in the preview 16 are shown for Elenor/Saren.

Curious which are getting removed then?. since in the preview 16 are shown for Elenor/Saren.

No one the romances will just happen over to 2 game instead of one, 8 of them will happen in the first game and the other 8 will happen in the second game.



The real question is which character will be in the first game and which will be in the second game.

Yes no romance are removed. Only the number of character/romance EACH game/DLC, to avoid total madness

I think we're going to do the old cast/new cast split. Because mixing them would always make someone unhappy

So confused now. First of all: 16? The previews /sneakpeaks showhttp://www.winterwolves.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=2974#p16615 and http://www.winterwolves.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=2976#p16698



And... those split into two games... isn't that 6 romances for Saren and 6 romances for Elenor, so you'd still have liek 12 romances per game?

I'm actually glad you're doing this. There's no way to meaningfully interact with 87,623 characters in your party. I normally try and rotate individuals to use all party members (and half the time I pick my team based on who would be most appropriate to match the story), but even in the original Loren I was struggling to find a use for a few characters. Most of the time they were just along for the ride or quick one-off dialogue. Plus, you just don't have the test coverage to test balance across 144 different skill choices. Not to mention, it'll be insanely difficult to come up with 144 skills that feel unique and aren't just copies of other skills except they do air damage.



How to split it though is a bit more complicated. I think I'd prefer one game to definitively be Saren and the other Elenor (makes it easier on the writing even!), though you'd have some characters overlapping both. Having one romance and then a second romance with the same character would be totally confusing (and I think Chambara would not react kindly to cheating).

So confused now. First of all: 16? The previews /sneakpeaks showhttp://www.winterwolves.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=2974#p16615 and http://www.winterwolves.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=2976#p16698



And... those split into two games... isn't that 6 romances for Saren and 6 romances for Elenor, so you'd still have liek 12 romances per game?

16 is the number of characters, 24 the number of romances since half of the love interest are share, so each game will have 8 love interest and 12 romances like in Loren+DLC

I think we're going to do the old cast/new cast split. Because mixing them would always make someone unhappy

I'm pretty sure having a game without new characters will also make someone unhappy.

How to split it though is a bit more complicated. I think I'd prefer one game to definitively be Saren and the other Elenor (makes it easier on the writing even!), though you'd have some characters overlapping both. Having one romance and then a second romance with the same character would be totally confusing (and I think Chambara would not react kindly to cheating).

No because splitting that way, people wouldn't play one story. If was the same story, maybe, but each part is a different story with a different quest/storyline. So it wouldn't be fair to exclude a gender from a story (not everyone is fine playing with other gender, etc).

I'm pretty sure having a game without new characters will also make someone unhappy.

Probably, but that's normal. Every game I make, someone is unhappy if is something I can easily fix (like Chalassa in SOTW) I'll do it, otherwise...for example imagine if R.Martin (Game Of Thrones writer) had to rewrite the story every time a fan complained because a character died



After this (and well after Planet Stronghold 2 obviously), I think I won't make anymore two games with the same main characters and (even worse!) with love stories that can continue from a point to another. Is too much work, and in exchange I'll only get complaints from people no matter what I'll choose, so... no thanks! is already hard to just finish a big RPG, I don't want to have additional headache

well that's a shame, im sure ill enjoy it regardless. Although it is a bit dissapointing