My Ideas

Boxing management simulation game
KnockOut
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My Ideas

Post by KnockOut » Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:22 pm

Okay, I just bought Universal Boxing Manager because although I would've liked more of an MMA game, boxing is still cool. It would be awesome to see leg kicks, sprawls, and submissions.

Moving up and down in weight classes has been suggested numerous times. But I'm going to suggest it again. :)

In tandem with this suggestion, I'd also like to reccomend the possibility of cutting weight. You could cut up to two weight classes down. The drawback of cutting weight would be that you couldn't fight as often.

Cutting weight would be an option on the manage screen. To cut one weight class down you'd need a minimum of three fitness rather than two fitness to fight. To cut two weight classes down you'd need a minimum of four fitness rather than two fitness to fight.

A fighter's fitness and morale would take a hit from weight cutting. This would also make charisma more important.

In order to enable this feature, a fighter would have to be able to be ranked in more than one weight class.

Also, I'd like to see a pre-fight screen. The pre-fight screen would list a fighter's height, weight, and reach. As a supplement to this feature, the red and blue boxers would look different based on their respective heights, weights, and reach.

In the pre-fight screen you could also indicate an overall strategy such as win by points or go for K.O. or T.K.O.

As a minor suggestion, it's sort of annoying to have to allocate training points every time I hire a new fighter so it would be nice to have all twenty five training points distributed evenly and then make adjustments based on the fighter.

Also, I'd like to be able to shout things to my fighters during the round such as:

Knock him out!
You're ahead on points, ride this round out!
Go for the clinch!
Press him against the corner!

Also, as a way to make the game more difficult is to make the starting boxers stats lower. Your starting boxer can have stats that are quite high.
His stats should be based more on the kind of boxer that you can get with no reputation.

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jack1974
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Post by jack1974 » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:29 pm

The movement in the weight classes could be done but would require some extra programming, since it could then have 2 ranks in 2 weight classes (as I've understand from what you wrote). So the old savedgame wouldn't be compatible anymore :lol:
The pre-fight screen is a nice idea, I like it, and also the "shouting" during the fight. Of course then the outcome would depends on the opponent too, so press him against the corner might result in your boxer being put KO by a sudden punch from opponent :)

The initial difficulty, and in general the difficulty setting is a thing I want to add. A "general" difficulty setting is needed since some people here finds it too easy, and others too hard ;)

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Post by KnockOut » Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:45 pm

I have some revisions to my suggestions based on your comments.

The problem with difficulty settings is risk versus reward. If there's no reward for playing on hard why would I do it? I'd rather play on easy and get the reward of more stats. There needs to be a reward for hard mode.

Being able to change weight classes is number one for me as cutting weight is an important part of boxing. So I'd gladly lose my saved game for it. In terms of being ranked in different weight classes you should be able to be ranked in four different weight classes at a time.

You can cut to two classes down(at a progressively higher fitness and morale cost but gain a weight and possibly height and reach advantage) or go one class up(if you're at the high end of your weight class, you could just eat some food to make higher weight but you'd lose weight advantage and again height and reach).

The benefit of being in more than one weight class would be you would get a higher purse due to your increased fame(this increase in purse would be independent of your charisma rating). If you're in the top ten in one weight class you can fight in the top ten in two below or one above. If you're not top ten you start at rank 101.

In terms of gaining or losing weight(different from cutting weight). You can allocate some training time to do it. Your stats could change for example losing weight(lose power, gain quickness) or gaining weight(gain power, lose quickness). The potentials could change as well. Boxer X could fight a lot better at Y or Z weight. It would take a month without fighting to change weight class and you would lose one fitness level.

When you change weight class you can be ranked in two sizes below and one size above. If this set does not include any former rankings you had, those former rankings are lost.

In regards to the pre-match screen, I'd be happy if next version was for flavor only because sometimes I forget what the stats of my fighter and opponent are before the match.

I want to see listed:

Age:
Weight:
Height:
Reach:
Quickness, etc.:
Betting Odds:
Style: Agressive, etc.

And I'd like to hear some cool music to hype up the fight.

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Post by Ken_Goding » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:46 pm

While I'm not sure how it's done in the pros, I believe you lose your ranking in your previous weight class when you have your first fight in a new one. This would throw the other class into minor turmoil if you were a titleist, they have interim titles or number 2 gets automatically bumped up. This would keep you from having to maintain two ranking systems...it's not fair for the #2 at welterweight to not get his shot for the title when my titleist has moved up to junior middleweight. But if my guy moved back down he could get an immediate title shot.

I still like the idea of a tier system for rankings - if I can beat a guy who would be "level 2" when I'm "level 4", that would put me among the "level 2" rankings, rather than having to fight 13 guys to finally match with this guy. This would keep journeymen from getting high rankings because they'd always have to fight someone in their "class" of fighter.

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Post by jack1974 » Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:44 am

Hmm I'm a bit confused now, I must admit! :lol:
Anyway I want to say that UBM isn't made to be a ultra-realistic game, indeed as you can see doesn't even have the real boxer names, even if I'll probably add a "boxer editor" on next update, so you can really edit all the weight classes if you want...!
About the weight change, I'll have to plan it carefully since could lead to lot of bugs, so won't be done fast, but is a good idea and definitely want to implement it later in the game :)

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Post by KnockOut » Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:56 pm

Okay, I'm going to try to clear it up since it is in fact confusing. I think Ken Goding is right, I mean he's right most of the time he's the number one expert on the game from all the posts I've read about UBM. You should lose your ranking when you switch weight classes. I don't like the idea of an in-game editor for anything other than decorative changes because it takes out the fun and strategy of things.

First, I'm going over gaining and losing weight(not cutting). Gaining and Losing Weight would be fairly easy and take a month. Of course, as you get to extremes it gets harder and harder to gain and lose weight. Gaining and Losing weight in the training screen. You'd need an F1 help button to be able to access the weight limits for each size class easily.

In the training screen you'd select whether you want to gain, lose, or maintain weight. And what you want the boxers goal weight to be. How long it takes for a boxer to meet the goal weight depends on the managers charisma and training skills.

Once a boxer changes weight he can fight based on the same "tier" he was in before. If he was top10 he can fight in the new weight top 10, same for top 25, top 50, top 75, top 100. As soon as he fights in the new weight he loses his old ranking and any titles he has.

Now for cutting weight. There would be a cut weight button in the manage screen. You could cut up to 30lbs. You click that you want to cut weight in the manage screen. The fighters ability to cut weight depends on a managers charisma and training. The more weight a fighter cuts for a fight the greater the morale and fitness loss he suffers.

Okay, now in order to select a fight you go to the fight screen. You go to the fighter that you want to cut weight. The list starts at his natural weight class or if he's cut weight before the weight that he's ranked in. Then you can scroll down through the list of weights and select a weight class to fight in that's within thirty pounds below your natural weight that's in the same tier of fighters you're in. If you try to select a match below thirty pounds your weight you get a blue message saying that you can't select a match below thirty pounds your weight.

So, after you select your opponent, you go to play the fight. There is the opportunity to not make weight and then you have to pay a purse penalty and your opponent may deny you the fight.

Now in order, to make all this worthwhile you have to make height, weight, and reach a factor in winning or losing fights.

Now of course, there's heavyweight and there should be the potential to gain as much weight as you want. The more weight you have the harder it is to be knocked out(larger neck and more massive chin) and the more power you have behind your punches(F=MA) but you lose quickness and agility.

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Post by Ken_Goding » Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:37 am

I'm getting what you mean.

The height and build should have a lot to do with the weight they can handle. There are a very few 6 foot tall guys who fight at like 147 lbs, but they have a very slender build. I'm 6' but I know from experience that I can't get much below the 170 mark because of my build, so each individual would have an "ideal weight" so to speak, and depending on how much he trains - or eats - he could make that weight or be heavier. If he starves himself to get into a lower class he would of course lose in some abilities but gain in others.

The weird catch is that some guys gain strength when they gain weight, some guys lose strength! Floyd Mayweather is moving up in weight AGAIN to face De La Hoya, he was his strongest when he was 130-135lbs and now he'll be fighting at 154. Or perhaps that was "strongest in comparison" as he's fighting bigger men now. His knockout rate is way down from what it used to be as he's hitting bigger guys.

Also, as men mature they naturally gain some weight. There are fighters that can no longer make their former weight once they hit 30 or so - the fiascos with Jose Luis Castillo and Diego Corrales last year being prime examples. Neither man can make 135 anymore, Castillo was forced to move up to 140 and I think Diego is following suit.

I love the idea of having to make weight, if the guy is lazy he won't get to his weight. I'm told that most boxers have a non-fighting weight that is quite a bit higher than fighting, but of course they fight twice a year so they gain and lose weight based on when they fight. Perhaps that would be too rough to try to code in. Month after a fight they gain 12 pounds and don't train at all, three months later they start training again and losing weight for a fight 6 months after the first one.

I do like the editor idea...if you want to keep the realism, just don't edit their stats, but jerks like me can continue to have invincible fighters mwuahahaha.

Which means he won't let me have it now. :lol:

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Post by jack1974 » Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:23 pm

Hmm this weight thing seems more complex than I thought :shock: I mean, finding the right mechanism, and what skills to sacrifice if you gain/lose weight.
For me, what would be "natural" is:
gain weight= lose quickness, gain strength
lose weight= lose strength, gain quickness
Ken_Goding wrote: I do like the editor idea...if you want to keep the realism, just don't edit their stats, but jerks like me can continue to have invincible fighters mwuahahaha.

Which means he won't let me have it now. :lol:

Haha no, I'll add it. If someone wants to edit its own boxers to cheat, isn't my fault :) I wanted to add it so people can customize the list (name, ages, etc) and maybe share them.

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Post by KnockOut » Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:24 pm

Well, the problem with just changing stats is that what if say your strength is already 100. Then there would be no point in going up a weight class. So I think that strength and quickness stats should be the same. Strength and quickness would just be a multiplier based on your weight.

Strength * weight = Punching Power
Quickness/Weight = Speed

But still it should be possible for gaining weight to change stats as increased muscle mass should increase strength independent of size but increased muscle mass also makes you gas out faster due to the more O2 required.

Maybe for next version a good goal would be to incorporate height, weight, and reach. And then next version to incorporate weight changes and then incorporate cutting weight.

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Post by jack1974 » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:09 pm

Well my original version of UBM, dated more than 2 years ago, had a "absolute value" for skills.
For example, boxers in low weights had strength capped at around 30-33 (basically 1/3 of the max value which is 99) and so on.
Then I don't remember why, maybe some user feedback or something else, they said that the value should be relative to the weight class and not absolute... but maybe now would be better to re-introduce it, since could be useful now.
I surely will adopt a gradual implementation of the weight class changes as KnockOut explained. No way I'm going to put such a big change into the game at all once :lol:

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