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Why you didn't buy PSCD?

A VN/CCG hybrid game currently in development

Why you didn't buy PSCD ?

I don't like art style
54
59%
I don't like the card gameplay
12
13%
I don't like the sci-fi setting
6
7%
I don't like the writing
8
9%
other (please specify)
12
13%
 
Total votes: 92

lanawinst
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Re: Why you didn't buy PSCD?

Postby lanawinst » Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:52 pm

jack1974 wrote:I think is correct to say "romance VN" (or dating sim), not VN in general. I think because the characters must look sexy/attractive/etc. Also, majority of players are female, so for them maybe manga works better (cuter, etc).


Point conceded, it applies more to romance VNS than other VNS ;) But I'm a female and I don't find manga drawings cuter, just more childish-looking. Although maybe you meant cute as opposed to mature? After all it may also be an age thing, most of the female playing "romance VN" are probably female teenagers and my teens years are long gone.

Zeta123
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Re: Why you didn't buy PSCD?

Postby Zeta123 » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:20 pm

@lanawinst I think it's because the art is the first thing that people notice so once they don't like them, they won't bother to try the demo to see the gameplay and writing.

kadakithis
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Re: Why you didn't buy PSCD?

Postby kadakithis » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:25 pm

Franka wrote:I am absolutely baffled by how much importance people place on art styles being so specifically tailored to their personal tastes, sometimes to the extreme point that they will dismiss something completely, purely because a couple of lines don't agree with them. I mean, it's fair enough, everybody's free to form their own opinions and act on them, I'm just not able to comprehend that artwork matters more than writing, setting and gameplay. However, I see from the voting that it absolutely does, so clearly there's something important to take away from all this.

I wonder, have I just become old? Maybe I've simply forgotten that not everyone grew up with much simpler games, where characters were blocks that you needed a healthy imagination to approximate to anything human.

This was once my favorite game.


Well Undertale became insanely popular, because story/characters/humor and it is pixel so not entirely out for the count.

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Lonestar51
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Re: Why you didn't buy PSCD?

Postby Lonestar51 » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:33 pm

When I tried the demo, I never got really into it. With "it" I mean the battles, the card game mechanics just does not work for me. It tells me "Simulation of cards which are simulation of battle", instead of just a "simulation of battle". The additional layer of representation just removes any motivation.

Also the battle difficulty suddenly spiked, one sidequest is easy, the next is near impossible.

Additional problems (though not the ones why I decided not to buy):
- I had problems keeping the female chars apart. The dialog is too short to make them memorable, and the pictures are too much like "one girl with different hairstyles" instead of making them different characters. The males are fine though, and I like the art style in general.
- Since any char brings different cards, I stopped looking at the chars behaviour or character. They were reduced to "which card do I need for my playstyle", disconnecting me further from any motivation.
- The writing (at least in the first few scenes) does not give the impression of a military setting. A group of friends might talk like this, but not soldiers on a dangerous outpost.

PS: I might tell you stuff already told by several people, or directly contradict several previous opinion. I did not yet read through the thread, as I wanted to give an unbiased feedback.

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Franka
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Re: Why you didn't buy PSCD?

Postby Franka » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:39 pm

Dankovsky wrote:@Franka it depends on the game a lot. There is no way around making likeable character sprites if you're making a visual novel. And yes, the general consumer logic's first question is "Do I like what I see?"


Well, I wouldn't want to make generalizations since I only really know my own opinion.

lanawinst wrote:This attachement to graphics is not as important for other type of games. Look at how well undertale did! Why does graphics matter little with RPGS but so much with VNS is beyond me, I'll admit.


I can understand that graphics matter for a genre called "visual" novel, just not that it matters so overwhelmingly. Especially for hybrid genres that also have a completely different gameplay element to them.

Undertale is kind of a special case, in that part of its massive popularity came from people that hadn't actually played the game, but were riding the wave simply because it upset other people.

Pace675 wrote:But when you veer off the path a little to VN and add art to the story it should not pull away from your imagination, but add to it. You loose out in choices with a VN due to its inherent linear nature and narrative, but gain a mental image of what the creator is trying to present with visual aids.


Fair enough that you feel this way. I've given chances to some pretty bad looking VNs though, if the story or setting intrigued me. There will be so many limitations to what you can do anyway, such as typically no more than two stances and maybe six expressions per important character, that immersion will be broken no matter what.

I have play the orginal CONSOLE version of pong. Yes there was only one game with two paddle a console and an RF switch you hooked up back to your old analog TV, it was black and white, no plot no story, just pong.


Oh yeah, I started out on text games with horrible parsers. :) Graphics came much later.

But as with everything, time progresses and so does expectations, it is just a fact. If a game has art in it nowadays, I have to like it, or I am not buying it; it is just that simple. I put my money where my mouth is, I like it I buy it, just that simple.


Which is cool, but confusing to me, because art is mostly secondary and sometimes less than that to my own personal enjoyment of a computer game. Yours is apparently the majority stance though, which is obviously important to take note of.

How about ET? XD


Even back then, when we didn't have the internet for instant reviews, I knew better than to play ET. :? :lol: But this was a case where no amount of graphics could have saved the game.

But nowadays even the rose tinted glasses BG2 is about as far as I am willing to go back now.


I was trying to get one of the old Gold Box SSI RPGs to run the other day, but it's sadly become such a technical nightmare. Admittedly, there is a period of time between early games and modern games that I'm having trouble playing now due to graphics that haven't aged well.

VR is here so....You ready for the next generation?


Nah, I'm not interested in the infancy of VR. Maybe in 10 years.

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Pace675
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Re: Why you didn't buy PSCD?

Postby Pace675 » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:56 pm

Franka wrote:I was trying to get one of the old Gold Box SSI RPGs to run the other day, but it's sadly become such a technical nightmare. Admittedly, there is a period of time between early games and modern games that I'm having trouble playing now due to graphics that haven't aged well.


Curse of the Azure Bonds was my favorite....Alias of Westgate, god I had such a nerd crush on her lol. I wonder if TV Tropes got that trope directly from this source about her chain-mail?

https://www.gog.com/game/forgotten_realms_the_archives_collection_two

Merry Christmas, they live on AND work on today's machines!


Nah, I'm not interested in the infancy of VR. Maybe in 10 years.


Lol I am here with too, I just want to jack into the matrix and be done with it XD.

Lady Dee
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Re: Why you didn't buy PSCD?

Postby Lady Dee » Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:16 am

With gaming becoming such a popular culture and with more and more indie devs coming day by day, people have a lot more options, but they don't have infinite money.

On the matter of art and my own lack of fundings, if I had an infinite amount of money to give a game a chance, even if I don't like the art, I would buy it in a heartbeat. But I don't. Art is pretty important to me in a VN since a good focus on a VN is the visuals. Story is very important to me, I can't stand bad writing, but despite it's importance it's still secondary to art for me. So when I buy a game I buy something I'm confident in, not something I have to give a chance. I have yet to be led astray and my wallet thanks me.

I've played my fair share of free VN's drawn by artists who are... bad. And I loved them. So art isn't everything as long as I like the story, but in the case of payed games, if I have to choose between paying for something with good writing and good art vs something that has art I don't like but good writing, I'm going to pick the one that pleases both sides of my tastes.

But like I said, I'm not in a great financial situation so I buy what I'm confident in, not something that I have to give a chance.

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Franka
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Re: Why you didn't buy PSCD?

Postby Franka » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:10 am

Pace675 wrote:Curse of the Azure Bonds was my favorite....Alias of Westgate, god I had such a nerd crush on her lol. I wonder if TV Tropes got that trope directly from this source about her chain-mail?


"It's enchanted."
"Obviously..."

https://www.gog.com/game/forgotten_realms_the_archives_collection_two

Merry Christmas, they live on AND work on today's machines!


I own them already. DOSBox is being annoying, which was the source of my frustration. I'll work it out, but ran a bit short of patience.

rooke30
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Re: Why you didn't buy PSCD?

Postby rooke30 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:31 pm

I really don't get people's attachment to manga style art. Modern manga art especially, considering it's worse than manga art from the 80s and early 90s. Lack of detail and no sense of proportions are its main characteristics, and they're not 'positive' characteristics, either.

Reath_
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Re: Why you didn't buy PSCD?

Postby Reath_ » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:16 pm

I haven't bought it since I'd never even heard of it until now. The only reason I found it was because I randomly checked Winter Wolves on the Steam store.

The screenshots don't leave a good first impression, since the character art looks kinda creepy. I think it's because they look almost realistic but slightly off, which causes the uncanny valley effect. The artist seems skilled enough since the clothes are well drawn, but the faces are really off putting. The aliens look much better and the background art is decent.

Another thing that bugged me is that the dialogue box is way too wide. Your eyes have to move a long distance to read the text, since it covers almost the entire width of a widescreen monitor. It would be easier to read if it was narrower, but taller. The text boxes in typical 4:3 visual novels are much easier to read, especially on a large monitor.

Instead of a visual novel only mode, wouldn't it have made more sense to make a card game only mode? Card games have a wider audience than visual novels do. Visual novels are already a niche genre, so people who enjoy both VNs and card games is going to be a pretty small market.

I played the demo for about an hour. It gives off a significantly better impression of the game than the store page does. It might be a good idea to put it on the Steam page too, since few people are going to visit the game's website and find it there. I enjoyed the card game portions of the demo. The card game seems well designed, although not particularly original. It reminds me of Hearthstone a lot.

The story didn't really capture my attention. There doesn't seem to be a clear hook to it. The war seems vaguely described. The dialogue claims that it's an urgent situation, but it really doesn't feel like it. All the characters are so easy going, which doesn't fit a military installation at war. The writing is more professional than a lot of other western VNs I've played, since the grammar and sentence structure are good.

The game didn't seem worth the full price for me. I might buy it on sale later, since the card game was fun. The story seems good enough that I could enjoy it too.


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