To all who finished the game...

The tale of the siblings Althea and Shea
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Taleweaver
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Re: To all who finished the game...

Post by Taleweaver » Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:12 pm

Angra Jahika wrote:Thank you for replying :)

That is great news, indeed. Maybe you can alter Chalassa's summary at the end of the original game only for those who have the DLC.

Knowing this, I guess I'm still going for the same ending on my next playthrough, which should happen pretty soon!
I'm not really a friend of retconning things, but the way I set up the DLC, there's a fair chance I'm able to... well, alter Chalassa's good ending a little. Or rather, put it into perspective. I'll see what I can do for you.

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Angra Jahika
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Re: To all who finished the game...

Post by Angra Jahika » Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:56 am

Taleweaver wrote: I'm not really a friend of retconning things, but the way I set up the DLC, there's a fair chance I'm able to... well, alter Chalassa's good ending a little. Or rather, put it into perspective. I'll see what I can do for you.
That would be much appreciated. Thank you, as well.

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Lonestar51
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Re: To all who finished the game...

Post by Lonestar51 » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:20 pm

I already gave a bit of a negative preliminary review, and during the holidays I have finished the game; now I can give my final verdict. And a bit of analysis.

In short: I am still disappointed by the game. To put it into perspective: There are any number of other games I bought and deleted after trying them out an hour or two. So there is something in the game, but still: There are also some good attempts which failed nevertheless. And of course, having played some winterwolves and taleweaver games, I have been a bit spoiled and increasingly demanding.

And now to the details, and beware of the spoilers!

The base issue is, in my opinion, that there were too many good ideas. The story of the shapeshifter twins is a good idea. The empires hunt for dark wizards is a good idea. The slaveholder city of dingirra is a great base for a story. Same for the intrigues between the four houses and the great mogul. Same for Shacklesplit. The list goes on and on.

However, there are too many ideas, and not enough cutting them. This hurts the game in a few ways:

Purely from a stroytelling perspective, I am never quite sure what this is about. First this, then it takes a sharp angle and becomes something different, and then again. And again.

Secondly, despite all you did not manage to develop all ideas fully. Especially the escape at the end of the second act was not really foreshadowed, it suddenly happens. There is the issue that some of the threads do not feel like they are really closed. Because there are so many of them, the closing of any of the stories is incomplete.

Or, as in the shapeshifter-thread, it comes a bit out of the blue: In the first act there are some hints, which are no longer followed up in the further acts, until in the final act they learn they are shapeshifters, have incredible powers (which would have been handy in the fights, BTW), and the wolf is a sibling. The resolution for a mostly forgotten issue comes too much out of the blue.

Finally, all the things you are trying to tell force the game to railroad the player. The story must be told, and all of the good ideas must be developed (which they were not really), and things must move in a certain way to accomplish it - and the player MUST be prevented from interfering with the storytelling.

Please compare planet stronghold to SOTW: Planet Stronghold is a nice little game. There is one story to be told (or two, if you count the different forks) and a bit of fluff - optional fluff - in the char sidequests. Note that the story - the idea for the story - is not especially sophisticated. But because - judging by the blog posts from the time - you had to finish it in a short time, you cut out everything which PS did not need. In SOTW you added too many of the ideas which came to you. The result: PS tells a story, provides an experience where everything fits together. SOTW, on the other hand, runs off in too many directions.

The above may seem a bit harsh, but as I said: The game is not so bad per se, only if compared to say PS or Loren...

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jack1974
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Re: To all who finished the game...

Post by jack1974 » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:28 pm

Thanks for the feedback, they're always welcome :)
Regarding the story, I think the goal was to make one of those games where you don't know what's going to happen next, with change of scenery and so on.
I'm not saying you're right or wrong obviously, I had very different reactions about the game story, some liked the "freedom of choice" in act3, while others (I think you too) said is the weakest act because "lacked a clear goal".
As author I'm not sure, the game is doing well, but I think all the improvement I made in the gameplay play a big part on it. Anyway, one thing I agree is that the game became too big, in a sense that perhaps would have been better to split it into two games or even four games, each one with a season and expanding the theme, or otherwise make it shorter.

Well at least the DLC has two big main ideas/quests :)

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Re: To all who finished the game...

Post by Foelhe » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:30 pm

I sometimes feel like RPG fans are so stuck on one specific type of narrative arc that they're not willing to play along with new ideas. I dunno. I liked SotW partly because it wasn't the typical Hero's Journey, which I think gets a little tired if it's the only story you're telling. It had some problems (the twist at the ending wasn't built up as well as it should have been) but it was nice to see something new. So I guess I have to disagree with Lonestar on this one, though if history's any judge he's probably got the more popular opinion. :wink:

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jack1974
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Re: To all who finished the game...

Post by jack1974 » Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:14 pm

Foelhe wrote:So I guess I have to disagree with Lonestar on this one, though if history's any judge he's probably got the more popular opinion. :wink:
I don't know, sometimes not everyone posts in forums, so is hard to know exactly how many people like/don't like something :)
Since I run a business I have to judge mainly based on the sales results, but I also take in great consideration all the feedback I get, positive and negative. And also several group of people have different opinions, for example on Steam Bionic Heart has a very positive review rating, still didn't do particularly well :oops:

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Re: To all who finished the game...

Post by Taleweaver » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:49 am

Foelhe wrote:I sometimes feel like RPG fans are so stuck on one specific type of narrative arc that they're not willing to play along with new ideas. I dunno. I liked SotW partly because it wasn't the typical Hero's Journey, which I think gets a little tired if it's the only story you're telling. It had some problems (the twist at the ending wasn't built up as well as it should have been) but it was nice to see something new. So I guess I have to disagree with Lonestar on this one, though if history's any judge he's probably got the more popular opinion. :wink:
Funny that you would say that because I wrote SotW specifically as a Hero's Journey kind of story, with emphasis on the Journey part.

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Re: To all who finished the game...

Post by Foelhe » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:53 pm

Taleweaver wrote:
Foelhe wrote:I sometimes feel like RPG fans are so stuck on one specific type of narrative arc that they're not willing to play along with new ideas. I dunno. I liked SotW partly because it wasn't the typical Hero's Journey, which I think gets a little tired if it's the only story you're telling. It had some problems (the twist at the ending wasn't built up as well as it should have been) but it was nice to see something new. So I guess I have to disagree with Lonestar on this one, though if history's any judge he's probably got the more popular opinion. :wink:
Funny that you would say that because I wrote SotW specifically as a Hero's Journey kind of story, with emphasis on the Journey part.
Ha! Alright, maybe Hero's Journey isn't what I mean. Most RPGs have the PCs romance arc being a Rise To Power/Rise To Authority deal, whereas even at their strongest Shea and Althea mostly feel like two kids in a mess of trouble. Which I like. The escape from the arena worked for me because I liked that you were mostly making contacts while other people were behind the scenes getting stuff done. That's not the traditional video game strategy (most RPGs have the PC calling the shots pretty much always) but it worked.

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jack1974
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Re: To all who finished the game...

Post by jack1974 » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:13 pm

Anyway the DLC script is almost done and I think should satisfy those who wants romance / story. The extra lines if you're in a romance are nice and the overall story I think is interesting. But you'll tell me your opinion when it's out :mrgreen: (I still have a bunch of art to commission first)

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iWeasle
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Re: To all who finished the game...

Post by iWeasle » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:05 pm

aw yea :mrgreen: !

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