To all who finished the game...

The tale of the siblings Althea and Shea
Taleweaver
Official writer
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:38 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: To all who finished the game...

Post by Taleweaver » Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:31 am

Okay, let me just address a few things quickly:

SotW deliberately simplifies the VNs part in favor of the RPG battles part, so naturally, the balance between fighting and talking is different from what it was in LtAP. Sorry if you didn't like that.

Act 2: If everything works out the way I hope it will, you're going to see a LOT more of Dingirra in a future game.

Act 3: Again, sorry you didn't like it. The quests aren't intended to be "side quests" - you might have noticed that, right until the end, there is not even a main quest. Instead, the act centers on showing you what the characters do now that they're free to do whatever they like. Krimm immediately discovers someone whose plight she can relate to (Aenais), Riley follows his life-quest to become filthy rich, and Vaelis feels indebted to the people who helped free him and the twins. If anything, Act 3 shows the party working out their own dynamics through the adventures they go through.

Althea and Shea: Both are at the center of the story, and necessarily, they are the channel through which the player experiences the story. That, to some extent, limits what I as a writer could do to them since the game is excplicitly their POV. There's going to be some character development for them in the DLC, though :)

The other characters: We were going for replay value here, replay value meaning "you won't be able to see everything in a single playthrough". I'm afraid you're going to have to play again to find out about everybody else (or watch a few Let's Plays; there's a decent one for Chalassa's arc on YouTube.)

Thanks for your constructive criticism!

User avatar
jack1974
Pack leader
Posts: 13710
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: To all who finished the game...

Post by jack1974 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:58 am

Yes as Taleweaver said. I know the frequent battles is not everyone's cup of tea. You could play them in Easy mode though?
Anyway, I don't think will do again a game with so many battles like that because seems it really wasn't worth the effort. More RPGs but with more story. At least I think the DLC will be much better for you and people like you who prefer less fights and more story!

User avatar
ValHallen
Druid
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:56 am

Re: To all who finished the game...

Post by ValHallen » Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:37 pm

Taleweaver wrote: SotW deliberately simplifies the VNs part in favor of the RPG battles part, so naturally, the balance between fighting and talking is different from what it was in LtAP. Sorry if you didn't like that.
Well I think I cant blame anyone besides myself, because I already knew about it, Jack made it explicity, but I didnt like the gameplay, so I continued playing for the story.
Taleweaver wrote:Act 2: If everything works out the way I hope it will, you're going to see a LOT more of Dingirra in a future game.
Yeah! :)
Taleweaver wrote:Act 3: Again, sorry you didn't like it. The quests aren't intended to be "side quests" - you might have noticed that, right until the end, there is not even a main quest. Instead, the act centers on showing you what the characters do now that they're free to do whatever they like. Krimm immediately discovers someone whose plight she can relate to (Aenais), Riley follows his life-quest to become filthy rich, and Vaelis feels indebted to the people who helped free him and the twins. If anything, Act 3 shows the party working out their own dynamics through the adventures they go through.
About this, its me who need say sorry, because the boring part was the number of battles, not the story. I liked Aenais quest because it was part of Krimm's arc.
Taleweaver wrote:The other characters: We were going for replay value here, replay value meaning "you won't be able to see everything in a single playthrough". I'm afraid you're going to have to play again to find out about everybody else (or watch a few Let's Plays; there's a decent one for Chalassa's arc on YouTube.)
Well I think its was a bad decision, even if the majority here in the forums replaying the game is common, but the majority of the players dont do that. Speaking for myself, I cant replay the game, the gameplay part really turned me off, Im curious about those character, but not enough to replay the game (specially because I dont like playing RPG with a female character).
Taleweaver wrote:Thanks for your constructive criticism!
No problem and Im sorry if I was agressive/offensive with my previous post.
jack1974 wrote:Yes as Taleweaver said. I know the frequent battles is not everyone's cup of tea. You could play them in Easy mode though?
I played the first act in nightmare mode, but when I reached the viking boss I couldnt defeat him, he could spam heal and my party wasnt doing enough damage, I knew i had screwed up my build (my ranger was very defensive, my druid only had water offensive magic and his defense was 90% for water magic, Krimm had only Ralkor's Blood, Kick, Pull and Adrenaline Rush), so I would need to restart the game to correct those mistakes and I didnt want to restart for the third time (my first playthrough was in the open beta, but I screwed the build too and restartedb but left the game until now), so I turned the game the game to Easy mode and finished the game.
It really hurted my game pride, I have all gameplay achievements for PS and Loren, I felt like I was failing in this game by not doing it on Nightmare :(.
jack1974 wrote:Anyway, I don't think will do again a game with so many battles like that because seems it really wasn't worth the effort. More RPGs but with more story. At least I think the DLC will be much better for you and people like you who prefer less fights and more story!
Man I must have sounded like a casual player, I really like combat but i couldnt like the combat in this game sorry Jack :cry: , I really tried.
And after reading your twitter I fell like crap, I know my post was not the reason for it, but I still feel bad :(
Last edited by ValHallen on Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
jack1974
Pack leader
Posts: 13710
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: To all who finished the game...

Post by jack1974 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:44 pm

No worries you don't have to apologize!!! :)
I also don't think has much to do about being a casual player, but the combats in this game were really too many :lol: It was a big mistake and was only mine, since Taleweaver followed my directions. The DLC will be MUCH BETTER, all focused on story and just with some combats but definitely nowhere as often as the main story.
Well, I had to try making a very "hardcore RPG" and see what would happen, how people's reactions would be. Don't get me wrong a lot of people liked the game as it is, so at least all those months spent on it weren't wasted, but clearly not enough to be worthwhile for me to do again. But is one of those things that I couldn't know until I tried, so that's why I did it :) live and learn!

User avatar
ill_intent
Young scout
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:38 pm

Re: To all who finished the game...

Post by ill_intent » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:12 pm

To continue on this tangent of the original thread......personally, I liked the amount/difficulty of the combat. (something you guys do well and I've loved since first playing Planet Stronghold) My only beef with the combat system is the visual layout of it gets extremely boring and makes it absolutely impossible to be impressed by giant/final bosses (but that's a minor, cosmetic issue).

(on future games made with sort of stress of combat) For those who like the story--but to be fair to achievements--I'd be curious if it was possible to add a "casual" difficulty that unlocks after you finish the game which has a Loren-style cheat menu. That would allow people playing for the story get what they want without the tedium of levelling and gearing characters over and over...but somehow make it so that no acheivements count on that difficulty.

Back to the original point of the thread, I generally liked the story. If I have to pick at the details of what (I thought) kept the story from being a bit more polished, I'd say this:

Considering the importance of Chalassa to the over-all plot, there should've been a bit more done earlier in Chapter 2. Even if it was just having the characters see her walk by before/after some of the fights (or coming/going from the arena), ignoring them in her stoic, pragmatic way. Something to give her a greater presence more deserving of the city's most famous gladiator. If she's supposed to be watching for "signs of her mission" (to avoid spoilers), she should be more visible rather than sequestered away until she suddenly needs to be directly important to the story. Also, an obscure/vague reference to feeling the darkness of her power mentioned/observed off-hand by the dark mages during their appearance in chapter 3 would have also been a good bit especially to contrast the general potential to romance her during that time.

On the earlier criticism of chapter 3, perhaps a bit more stress on how little the twins know about any part of the world outside of snow and forests would've been a good focal point. Even in chapter 2, they only see the inside of a city. Having them decide to want to help out simply to experience everything is barely touched upon and something that should've had more stress put on it considering this is (generally) a story of adventurers. This still leaves room for all of the other characters to do what they want.....but at least gives a theme to keep coming back to (to keep the freedom from becoming a manditory pile of chaos that you just have to do). As was also stated earlier, this story was designed to be POV from the twins.

Other than that, I loved the fact that this "Tales of Aravorn" is exactly that. Foreshadowing events to come in Loren 2 as well as learning more about this world so that any future games can have a deeper more interesting background to draw upon.

User avatar
jack1974
Pack leader
Posts: 13710
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: To all who finished the game...

Post by jack1974 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:15 am

ill_intent wrote:To continue on this tangent of the original thread......personally, I liked the amount/difficulty of the combat. (something you guys do well and I've loved since first playing Planet Stronghold) My only beef with the combat system is the visual layout of it gets extremely boring and makes it absolutely impossible to be impressed by giant/final bosses (but that's a minor, cosmetic issue).
The best thing would be to have an isometric representation, not necessarily with movement like Final Fantasy Tactics (even if that would be my ultimate dream for a battle system) but even like Suikoden, so we could show a giant boss in isometric that maybe could fill the slot of 4 normal enemies. But yes with the current engine would be almost impossible to do that :oops:
ill_intent wrote: (on future games made with sort of stress of combat) For those who like the story--but to be fair to achievements--I'd be curious if it was possible to add a "casual" difficulty that unlocks after you finish the game which has a Loren-style cheat menu. That would allow people playing for the story get what they want without the tedium of levelling and gearing characters over and over...but somehow make it so that no acheivements count on that difficulty.
During testing I tried, but couldn't make it work - because several battles have custom conditions. And if I make a cheat like Loren that you kill all enemies with one hit, in those battles things would get messed up. I still got some (rare) reports of people encountering a crash while playing in easy mode, during the liberation challenge, because they kill Chalassa too quickly so the required scenes don't trigger as they should :(

I want to repeat again though, is not like the game was a flop/failure, but compared to the insane amount of work/time/money spent, should have made a lot more. Unless things change dramatically during the course of this year that won't happen (is not impossible, but very very unlikely since most sales are on launch months).

User avatar
ill_intent
Young scout
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:38 pm

Re: To all who finished the game...

Post by ill_intent » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:04 am

This is why I you guys rock compared to many other groups (indie or not); always a solid, concise and prompt reply to people's comments.

The technical and cosmetic side of my comments were just really minor issues and nothing that--in any way--takes away from how much fun I had with it. Either way, thanks for the great game. When I first started and only saw what little was presented in Season 1, I was worried the game was going to be some pointless, sandbox game just taking place in the Aravorn world. (Too many games, movies, comics, etc. have fallen into that trap just wanting to do more with a world from an existing series/source) This feels more like a prologue to what will come in Loren 2.

User avatar
Elmsdor
Young scout
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 12:46 pm

Re: To all who finished the game...

Post by Elmsdor » Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:14 am

Less combat? What is this, heresy.

But arg, wish I was around to test more but let me throw in my 2 wolves.

Side combat works for those who wants goodies, epics.

Consider small combat without that healing/rez bulldust. Just enough to steal a few potions and sp from the player (usual tactic before boss fight)

Go nuts on big engagements.

More important things - story continuity

If a minor character ever replaces a major character in any ending possibility, that implies non canon. Much sadness for Chalassa if so.

I would advocate a retcon or even a small draft, such as she was away, or she is an active character otherwise.

Now where's that stronghold thingy...

User avatar
iWeasle
Woods ranger
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:49 am

Re: To all who finished the game...

Post by iWeasle » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:03 pm

Elmsdor wrote: If a minor character ever replaces a major character in any ending possibility, that implies non canon. Much sadness for Chalassa if so.
Not necessarily, In ME3 there's a lot of characters who can show up to replace various characters who could have died, but the cannon Shepard didn't let everyone die, just some people.

Yglika
Young scout
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:21 am

Re: To all who finished the game...

Post by Yglika » Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:17 pm

Liked:
- Quite big branches in story lines, depending on my decisions.
- Sometimes really unexpected and well written story twists.
- Rowinda's humour (and sometimes good humour in general but without damaging the seriousness of the game, what is important)
- Medieval fantasy setting (I love it most of all settings in rpg/life sims)
- Not all quests were 100% obvious how to successfully finish them but neither too difficult to solve to make it frustrating.
- When things get rough Althea behaves like a capable and natural leader. Makes her very believable as the person who leads the group without the official "captain title" by her sheer innate non-nonsense attitude and intelligence.
- Romance (how it was done).
- Chalassa + Rowinda characters.
- Althea having the most massive 300% single target damage fireball spell (yeah, I'm weird, I know ;-))

So-so:
- Flashbacks of companions. Generally I prefer to play _my_ character but they were small enough to be acceptable so it was ok.
Spoiler:
However DLC was only "half-size" because of it, but at least story+gameplay was interesting for both sides so it was not that big issue in the end.
Disliked:
- No story lines altered based on what my character is (defined by her class, moral decisions, romance).
- Lack of strong male characters (Rilley is... well... if not coward then lets say very cautious + somewhat girlish and Jariel is a nerd. :-) Vaelis perhaps, but he's too old ;-)). Yeah, I know I'm choosy, but they basically forced me to love Chalassa (not that it was a bad experience ;-))
- Could been perhaps a bit more heroic. Imho most don't recognize how powerful group Althea and her companions are during the game, including the group itself which behaves scared way too often way too much (Krimm being the exception but she's a bit maniac). Chalassa usually has the most healthy assessment of their abilities what was an another reason why I liked her.
Spoiler:
- And especially in DLC Ninim really behaves like a group of assholes. To the point I'd be tempted to just leave them to their own damn fate. ;-) They're indeed lucky I'm not _really_ Althea.
Overally though: Good game, I enjoyed it. Dislikes are minorities (except perhaps the first) but likes were strong aspects.

Post Reply