Violence as Romance: Can We Please Not?

A mystery life sim set in college. GxB and GxG options planned
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jack1974
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Re: Violence as Romance: Can We Please Not?

Post by jack1974 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:37 am

No he does apologize himself explicitly in the scene, at least that lol :)

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Franka
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Re: Violence as Romance: Can We Please Not?

Post by Franka » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:43 am

Well, that's something at least. :)

Sparky
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Re: Violence as Romance: Can We Please Not?

Post by Sparky » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:48 am

Hellooooo, I’m the writer of Nicole, and I want to start by saying that I’m sorry that the game triggered you in that way. It wasn’t my intention to present Nicole as someone who tolerates abusive relationships, but the problem is that fact is obvious to me as the writer. To the audience, they’re not going to know that right away, and interpretations vary from person to person. Experiences shape interpretations, so I can completely understand your criticism.

Let me start by saying that my intention with this post is to explain each problematic scene you pointed out in the way that I personally wanted it to be interpreted as. This isn’t a ‘you’re wrong and I’m going to show you why’ post. I’m just going to do my best to explain myself, so please don’t take anything I say as a personal attack on you and your opinions. Anywaaay:

-----

Ah, yes, Jeff. My intention for him, as the perpetrator, was to make him so outlandishly out there that people went ‘Well, he can’t be the bad guy! That’d be too easy!’ He was definitely the guy you would keep an eye on. He was calculating, devious, and he acted as though he lived in a world different from everyone else. This is, unfortunately, traits shared with sexual predators. So where I intended to incorporate whimsy in his character, also incorporated a sense of ‘waaaaay too creepy for his own good.’

Nicole, herself, senses this as well. Throughout his route, she struggles with differentiating the Jeff she knew, from the way Jeff acts now, to the possible Jeff she thinks lies inside him. And to her, at first, it’s not worth it.

Excerpt from Jeff, Event 3:

*I do my best not to be creeped out and fail miserably.*
ni *Okay, I’m going to go leave you to...whatever it is you do in here.*
*Unconcerned, Jeff waves me off as I quickly leave the lab and slam the door shut behind me.*
*Did that just really happen?*
*Who would’ve thought that Mister Perfect was actually too perfect to really exist?*
*One thing I know for sure, though: I think I’m going to be spending a lot less time in Professor Garver’s lab now...*

Excerpt from Jeff, Event 4:

*I should’ve known that I’d see Jeff around the life science department! I don’t want to say that I’ve been avoiding him lately, but...yeah, I’ve been totally avoiding him ever since I last ran into him at the lab.*
*I don’t think he’s seen me yet. Great! I can probably hide somewhere until he passes by.*
*Unfortunately for me, Jeff turns and catches me on the spot then makes a face like that’s exactly what he was trying to do.*
*Oh no, he can’t be looking for me, can he?*
je *Nicole, I’ve been looking everywhere for you!*
*I can’t even run or hide because that’ll look totally obvious!*
*The way Jeff comes over toward me really creeps me out. He looks normal, with his friendly smile and a hand held over his head, but when you know what I know...*
*Then you’d know that’s anything {i}but{/i} normal for Jeff.*
ni *O-Oh, Jeff, hi...*
*I try forcing myself to smile and look natural. I have no idea how Jeff does this so easily. I can barely keep myself from cringing as he stops in front of me.*

So why does Nicole tolerate Jeff? Welllll:

*Jeff extends his hand and flashes me a charming, obviously practiced smile. I hesitate, eyeing his hand like it’s infested with the plague.*
ni *And when we find all these ingredients...then you’ll hold up your part of the deal, right?*
je *You have my word, which isn’t worth much considering, but I’m afraid it is all you have for now.*
*He’s right when he says I don’t have much to go off of, but...it doesn’t sound too hard, admittedly. And if it’s to get an A...*
ni *Okay, I’m in, but you better keep to your word!*
*I take his hand and squeeze it firmly, almost to the point where it must’ve been painful.*
*Jeff’s hand simply remains in mine passively. He never squeezes back. Instead, he only smiles deviously.*
je *When I promise to do something, I do it, Nicole. You will soon see that I am truly a man of my word.*
je *When I mean it, hehe...*
*A shiver runs through my arm, starting from where our hands are connected. I immediately let go and bring mine back to my chest. Just what have I gotten myself into now?*

Nicole is so aware that Jeff is possibly no good, but she’s your average college student obsessed with her GPA. The devil is essentially offering her an easy A in a hard class, and she gives into temptation and goes through with it. Even then, she still questions whether or not this is a good idea. I’m not saying this is a valid reason for staying with Jeff. On the contrary, I designed it to be rather flimsy so as the two grew closer, Nicole asked herself “why do I bother remaining his assistant?”

One valid answer: because you don’t know how to leave an abusive relationship. Is Nicole’s relationship with Jeff abusive? Well, okay, this is tricky.

To Nicole, no, and I’ll explain why later. However, this is the problem when the protagonist has a set personality. They do things that the player themselves would not do, so what makes perfect sense to the character does not to the player behind the character. I designed Nicole to be someone observed–to be watched by the player and followed along. It’s like watching a horror movie: you can scream and scream at the tv for the character not to enter the room, but they’re going to do what they think is right at the moment.

Does that make what the character is doing any less stupid? No.

By extension, would this hypothetically make Nicole’s relationship any less abusive? No. Which is why going into deeper depth of the Jeff/Nicole relationship is needed to see if their interactions resemble that of an abuser and abusee.

Alright, so let’s go over the scenes you mentioned.

“He physically grabs Nicole’s hand to keep her from leaving.”

ni *Uh...hey there, Jeff.*
*I awkwardly gesture to my book.*
ni *Seems like you found my book. W-Well, I’ll just be on my way now!*
*I stiffly walk over to him and hastily try to swipe my book away. However, he plants his hand on top of mine before I can pull back. Smiling, his eyes lock onto mine, but I immediately know this is not the same smile I’m used to Jeff giving me.*
je *Heh, so how long have you been in here, Nicole?*
ni *Um...well, funny story!*
*I pull my book toward me super fast, knocking Jeff’s hand away. Hugging it to my chest with an arm, I take a few steps back before I point accusingly at him.*
ni *I know how to disarm a guy, so you better stay back!*

By no means am I going to defend that Jeff’s behavior is okay. However, Nicole knows that as well, and she makes it clear that she isn’t going to tolerate it.

“He ‘jokingly’ says he’ll have to kill her.”

je *Anywho, now that you know, I’m afraid I’ll have to kill you.*
ni *W-Whaaat?!*
je *I am joking, of course.*
*I stomp my foot and yell in frustration, shaking out my nerves.*
ni *Don’t do that! That’s not funny!*

Yeah, the joke’s pretty black and white. Either you find it amusing or you don’t, and I can see why someone wouldn’t appreciate Jeff’s sense of humor. Not that I’m saying it’s okay to joke about killing people (though I’m sure we’ve all made the same joke or so about someone we weren’t fond of ‘I’m gonna kill him when I find him!’) but I meant for this to further display Jeff’s lack of “true” understanding when it came to human interaction.

ni *I mean...it can’t be! You’re, like, super nice, and everyone looks up to you in the lab! If that isn’t who you really are then are you saying that’s all–*
je *A farce? Completely. Utterly. Truly. Without rebut.*
*Jeff raises his hands and shrugs indifferently.*
je *You would be surprised at what years of study and practice can do for your social life. That’s all human interaction is–a formula.*
je *Encounter a person? Simply add one part smile with two parts warmth, and the chance of a successful exchange is at least eighty percent.*

Jeff already has a loose, superficial way of interacting with people. When he stops pretending, he stops pretending. He doesn’t care what you think of him or if he hurts your feelings. If he thinks something’s going to be funny, he’ll make the joke, even if Nicole, as well as the reader, doesn’t like it. Is this okay? Nope, nope, noooooo. But this is unfortunately how Jeff acts at the beginning. As for the “cat toying with his prey” part, yeah there isn’t much to explain. It’s Nicole telling the reader that she thinks Jeff is seriously someone she needs to watch out for. So watch out for him, you shall do.

So Jeff’s compliments. I’m going to be completely honest and say that I loved writing Jeff. Why? Because he is so outside of polite human socialization that I felt like I could be creative with the way he spoke and acted. However, I don’t recall ever having Jeff actively put down Nicole with a backhanded compliment.

“ You only prove I have excellent tastes!”
-You being excellent proves that I’m excellent.

“I thought I had you figured out, and then you go and surprise me like this!”
-Even I can’t categorize you, and that’s really impressive.

And I’m not exactly sure what you mean by “If I did, I wouldn’t be here.” so if you figure out the exact quote, I can address it later!

However, one can argue. “Well, does Nicole ever get a pure compliment that she doesn’t have to interpret and decode?” The answer is unfortunately no. While I can argue that this is Jeff’s character, and he’s not the type to actively compliment people since he really makes a point to talk about how much he doesn’t like people, I figure he’d at least compliment someone he was really starting to feel feelings for.

Really the closest I could find was this:

ni *But I doubt anyone else would mind if you acted the way you really were, especially your grandparents. You’re not a bad person! You’re just different!*
je *Isn’t that still an insult?*
ni *I meant it as the best compliment I could think of.*
*Jeff bursts out laughing so loudly that I blush. It wasn’t that funny!*
je *I see! However, that’s not happening anytime soon. Not unless everyone became more like you, Assistant.*
ni *Annoying and spacey?*
je *As well as easy to talk to and amusing.*
*I don’t know whether to frown because Jeff agreed or to blush because he complimented me. I do a weird mix of both.*
And it doesn’t really count because Nicole jokingly insults herself in the process. So yeah, that was my bad. I should’ve attempted to better show that Jeff wasn’t just yanking her around anymore. That he was starting to see her as an actual equal and beginning to realize that this way of relating to people is horribly wrong.

However, I can provide an example of how Nicole reacts when Jeff puts her down.

Jeff, Event 6:

*Jeff slyly grins at me.*
je *Honestly, you should leave the thinking to me, and do your job, Assistant. You allow your mind to be clouded by the most inane things.*
*I feel something inside my head snap as I take in what he’s just said.*
*Taking a deep breath and counting to ten is not going to work. How dare he act so condescending toward me when all I’m doing is being reasonable!*
ni *Okay, you know what, Jeff? My mind isn’t clouded by ‘inane things.’ Unlike you, I just happen to give a hoot about other people!*
ni *So just say whatever you want! I’m not stupid because I want to be nice! I’m way smart–smart enough that I can find your stupid flower on my own!*
*I stick my tongue out at Jeff before darting down the road ahead of him.*
ni *And at least I don’t have to pretend to be someone I’m not in order for people to like me!*
*I make sure to scream that last bit before he’s out of earshot. Stupid Jeff. He’s lucky I’m not the type of girl to back out on a commitment or I’d be running out of this arboretum, rather than further in.*

What he says here is basically “You’re not good at thinking.” No subtlety, no backhanded compliment–this is an outward insult. And how does Nicole react? She is furious. She snaps. She doesn’t take it because she knows that she’s better than that. Which is where I think misinterpretations happen. To some readers, they see what Jeff says and wonder how Nicole can tolerate all of it. To Nicole, she hears the things Jeff says like “I thought I had you figured out, and then you go and surprise me like this!” and she rolls her eyes. She is very sure of herself, overconfident even, which I think further explains why she continues to persist. But she is not the type of person to take blows to the ego unless someone actively puts her down or doubts her. It’s at that point that she’ll fight for herself, as she should.

Jeff getting physical...hrm, I don’t recall many moments where he actively grabs her. He does block her path and doesn’t accept no, and Nicole dumbly agrees to go with him. However, I’ll address this at the very end. For the other example, you pointed out.

Excerpt from Ted, Event Five:

*Jeff cackles like an evil villain from an animated movie.*
je *I’m getting shivers, Nicole. Feel my arm–there are goosebumps, right?*
*I pull my hand away from Jeff’s goosebumpy arm.*
ni *Ew, no! I’m not touching you!*

I think this is what you mention about goosebumps? I’m not exactly sure where you got that he ‘forcibly grabs Nicole’s hand.’ The “I pull my hand away from Jeff’s” etc can be misleading, but I never wrote that Jeff grabbed her. Nicole’s hand was already away from his arm; she just wanted it way way way away after he said that.

Alright, that ‘near-rape’ scene. Oh boy that near-rape scene. I was incredibly conflicted including this scene, and perhaps I shouldn’t have to avoid triggering anyone, but I did include it. I did for a reason, so let’s go over it.

ni *Look, I know I never said it, Jeff, but when I think of us, I think of us as friends.*
ni *Sure, we got off on the wrong foot. We may have argued a whole bunch of times, but we’ve spent enough time together to get to know each other. Don’t you think?*
je *I know this is true...*
*Jeff’s voice lowers, and for a moment, I think I’ve finally gotten to him.*
je *Which is what makes this make less sense than before!*
je *You know how I really act! The man behind the mask, as it were! Yet you still claim to be fond enough of me to call me your friend?*
*I nod, unsure of how else to make it any clearer.*
je *Don’t. Do not do that. I d-do not want this!*
ni *What don’t you want? What are you talking about?*
je *Silence!*
*Jeff’s breaths come heavy and haggard. This can’t be good. He’s like some out of control animal right now.*
*Finally, his erratic breathing stops. Jeff goes limp, but he remains hovering over me against the wall.*
je *...What do I have to do to make you hate me?*
*I nearly jump as Jeff’s hands come out of nowhere and land on my shoulders. There’s something different to his touch–something that makes me shiver.*
je *To make you detest me?*
*His fingers trace down my arms, their movement almost sensual. My heart freezes on a beat. This can’t be happening right now.*
je *To make you loathe me?*
*And finally, I feel his fingers wrap around my wrists. In a flash, both of my hands are slammed over my head, and I can feel my breath hitch as I realize what Jeff is getting at.*
je *Is this what it takes to make you hate someone, Nicole? Do I have to violate you? Must I destroy every last bit of you to make you finally leave?*
*Jeff’s hands stay tight around my wrist, his eyes locked with mine. His breathing is labored and shallow while mine... Well, I do my best to stay calm in this situation.*
*I know I should be struggling. I should be kicking Jeff in the nuts right now since he’s stupidly left them wide open, but something about this feels so off.*
*It’s like Jeff himself doesn’t even want to do this.*

Then if we pick the right scene.

*It’s after studying his eyes that I finally realize why.*
ni *You really are good at pretending.*
*If I was the least bit scared, I’m not anymore.*
ni *This isn’t you, Jeff. What you really want. I can tell. You don’t look like you’re into this one bit.*
je *I have you pinned to the wall, and that is all you come up with to say? No desperation? No bargaining?*
ni *Oh, I’m not going to beg for you to stop. I’m gonna make you put your money where your mouth is.*
*I relax back against the wall, tightening my jaw so Jeff knows I’m not fooling around here.*
ni *I won’t fight you. Go ahead. Do what you want, Jeff.*
*I’m calling his bluff. Right here, right now. But for all I know, I’m totally wrong and about to be in a heap of trouble.*
*There’s no chance of that happening, though. I’m positive.*
*This Jeff isn’t the Jeff I’ve gotten to know. Sure, he’s had some rough spots, but he’s not a monster like he’s trying to convince me he is!*
*Faced with my challenge, Jeff starts to crack. His lips tremble. I see his pupils dart around the room as he tries to come up with a response. Finally, he gives off a defeated groan.*
je *Curse you!*
*He releases my wrists, allowing them to fall back to my sides. I exhale loudly as I tend to them.*
ni *You grabbed me really hard!*
je *I was trying to scare you. That was the point.*
*The adrenaline rush makes me feel jittery all over. I wasn’t sure what to expect there for a second...*
je *Fine. You want to know how I’m faring?*
je *As you can undeniably tell, I am an utter and complete mess right now, and I would really appreciate it if {i}you{/i} of all people were not here to see it.*
je *Hence why I needed you out, out, out! I can’t stand the sight of you right now! Leave me be!*
*He points toward the door, not meeting my eyes. I get the hint.*
*At least he sounds lively. That’s enough to set my worries at ease.*
*Before I leave, though, I hear him call out to me.*
je *...Nicole.*
ni *Yeah?*
je *...I apologize for that.*
*I stare down at my wrists, still red from Jeff’s grip. I’d never let anyone touch me like that. Ever.*
*Resentment pools in my chest, but I do my best to swat it away and ignore it for now. Jeff wasn’t seriously trying to hurt me there. Plus he’s in a super vulnerable state right now.*
*I force myself to grin and shake my head uneasily.*
ni *Don’t worry about it. You’re going through a tough time, okay? Your head wasn’t in the right place!*
*As much as I’d like to, I don’t think yelling at him will get through to him. Me yelling is what started this whole mess, anyway.*

So let’s start from the beginning.

*Jeff’s breaths come heavy and haggard. This can’t be good. He’s like some out of control animal right now.*
*Finally, his erratic breathing stops. Jeff goes limp, but he remains hovering over me against the wall.*
je *...What do I have to do to make you hate me?*
*I nearly jump as Jeff’s hands come out of nowhere and land on my shoulders. There’s something different to his touch–something that makes me shiver.*
je *To make you detest me?*
*His fingers trace down my arms, their movement almost sensual. My heart freezes on a beat. This can’t be happening right now.*
je *To make you loathe me?*
*And finally, I feel his fingers wrap around my wrists. In a flash, both of my hands are slammed over my head, and I can feel my breath hitch as I realize what Jeff is getting at.*
je *Is this what it takes to make you hate someone, Nicole? Do I have to violate you? Must I destroy every last bit of you to make you finally leave?*

Let me say straight out: this scene was not supposed to be romantic in the least. I did not intend for someone to read this scene and go “Awwwww.” This is supposed to be scary. Jeff has apparently lost all sense of himself and he is willing to do the ultimate betrayal in order to get Nicole to leave him alone. He’s no longer a love interest. He’s an “animal” right now. Nicole is seeing a terrible side of him, and she no longer regards him as a human. At least if he was genuine:

*It’s after studying his eyes that I finally realize why.*
ni *You really are good at pretending.*
*If I was the least bit scared, I’m not anymore.*
ni *This isn’t you, Jeff. What you really want. I can tell. You don’t look like you’re into this one bit.*
je *I have you pinned to the wall, and that is all you come up with to say? No desperation? No bargaining?*
ni *Oh, I’m not going to beg for you to stop. I’m gonna make you put your money where your mouth is.*
*I relax back against the wall, tightening my jaw so Jeff knows I’m not fooling around here.*
ni *I won’t fight you. Go ahead. Do what you want, Jeff.*
*I’m calling his bluff. Right here, right now. But for all I know, I’m totally wrong and about to be in a heap of trouble.*

I feel like this can be interpreted as Nicole going “Okay, go ahead and rape me if you want.” But that isn’t the case. Nicole is calling Jeff out. “I know you’re not going to rape me. You’re full of shit.” This is a flaw of Nicole’s that I’ll address at the very end, but she is willing to bet her body on her own hunch, and even then:

*I’m calling his bluff. Right here, right now. But for all I know, I’m totally wrong and about to be in a heap of trouble.*

She’s aware that there’s a real chance Jeff isn’t lying and will actually go through with it. She might have to defend herself, things might get messy, but she is willing to take this bet because:

*There’s no chance of that happening, though. I’m positive.*
*This Jeff isn’t the Jeff I’ve gotten to know. Sure, he’s had some rough spots, but he’s not a monster like he’s trying to convince me he is!*

She believes in her own interpretation of Jeff. She trusts her experiences and her gut, and she goes with it. Unfortunately, the real world is never always this kind. Thankfully for Nicole, she was right this time.

Anyway, Jeff gives up, reveals he was never planning on raping her yadda yadda. Then we get to the end before Nicole leaves him alone:

*Before I leave, though, I hear him call out to me.*
je *...Nicole.*
ni *Yeah?*
je *...I apologize for that.*
*I stare down at my wrists, still red from Jeff’s grip. I’d never let anyone touch me like that. Ever.*
*Resentment pools in my chest, but I do my best to swat it away and ignore it for now. Jeff wasn’t seriously trying to hurt me there. Plus he’s in a super vulnerable state right now.*
*I force myself to grin and shake my head uneasily.*
ni *Don’t worry about it. You’re going through a tough time, okay? Your head wasn’t in the right place!*
*As much as I’d like to, I don’t think yelling at him will get through to him. Me yelling is what started this whole mess, anyway.*

I’ll admit Jeff’s apology is lukewarm. After all, he just threatened to rape Nicole, and joke or no joke, that is some serious business. That’s why Nicole is upset. She can feel resentment and bitterness pool up in her, even though Jeff didn’t mean it, even though she herself knew he was never going to do it.

He still threatened to violate her and she’s not okay.

Yet she fakes a smile and tries to play everything off as cool because here is her friend literally at the end of his rope, and all he’s looking for is some sign that he isn’t a mess and a failure and a screw up. Nicole doesn’t give that to him, but she does grant him a small mercy and not address it right now. Does she bring it up later and talk about how it was unacceptable? Yes. Did I ever write about it? No, and that’s my fault. I shouldn’t have included a scene like this if I didn’t have the space to thoroughly have Nicole address it and say ‘no, that was not okay. this is never okay’ for the readers who may think that the rape scene was fine. So that’s my fault, and I apologize. I should’ve made Nicole address the repercussions of even pretending that he was gonna violate her more explicit.

Alright, so the rest of your concerns can be addressed by the last thing I wanted to say. Namely, why does Nicole stick around this weirdo? Why does she make excuses? Why doesn’t she distance herself?

And to answer that, I say it’s because Nicole is flawed.

Like I said at the beginning, protagonists with a set personality are tricky. Since they are essentially their own person, it’s difficult to step in their shoes as people are want to do in the dating sim genre. I think this is why most VNs give the protagonist no face and no real personality, but I digress.

Nicole is flawed. She has many strengths: she’s kind, she’s a hardworker, she’s empathetic, she’s assertive, but she is also very, very naive and overconfident.

Where you, dear reader, would encounter these relationships and turn away because you realize something is amiss, Nicole would do the opposite. She sees Jeff is creepy and she continues socializing with him because she doesn’t think anything terrible will come of it. She has no experience with boys. She is only mildly aware of what they’re capable of, and she is overconfident to the point where even if she thinks she knows what they’re capable of, she is sure she can handle it. In fact, she can CHANGE them.

Creepy Jeff is blocking my way and won’t take no for an answer? Fiiiine, I’ll talk to him and then get on with my life, whatever. He wants me to be his assistant? Pfft, no sweat! I can do that stuff in my sleep. And now I’m getting closer to him? This must mean he’s seeing the error of his ways!

Nicole thinks she has more power than she really does, and she is called out on this by every love interest in the game.

je *You’re the one who decided not to tell anyone. You’re the one who decided to take on this task all on your own. I never made you isolate your efforts. That was all your conscious decision.*
ni *So what? Did you want me to go crying to my mom or my dad?! Ha, or better yet, you? Would that have given you some kind of kick?!*

Now this can definitely be interpreted as victim shaming, but Jeff is being valid here. Nicole came across a crazy abductor and told no one. She let no one in. She thought she could handle it all by herself. And then at the end, where she thought she would be victorious and save the day, all she ended up doing was walk into a trap.

What does Nicole do in response? She becomes defensive. Jeff has hit onto points that even she doesn’t want to address. “Did you want me to go crying to my mom or dad?” aka “Did you want me to admit that I have limits? Did you want me to ask for help?”

Nicole is 18 years old. She isn’t perfect, and she’s, unfortunately, the type of person who walks into dangerous situations with the utmost belief that she’ll come out unscratched in the end. What’s even worse is that she thought she had saved Jeff. She thought that her influence alone was enough to change him from the creep she eavesdropped on in the laboratory to a human being. Then she reaches the hideout.

And it turns out she was wrong. No matter what she does, Jeff will always be the culprit and there’s nothing she can do about it. She can’t redeem him. She can’t help him.

However, she knows he’s a ‘good guy.’ To Nicole, this isn’t an excuse. She isn’t trying to justify her relationship or why she fell in love with him. She says he’s a good guy so he has to be a good guy. How can she be wrong? Nicole Grave is not wrong.

And I can argue that it’s because Nicole has the ability to believe 100% in herself and anyone close to her that she helps the love interests move beyond their irrevocable flaws, but that’s what I, as the author, know.

If I could, I would somehow find a direct way to channel to my readers all the ideas and thoughts I’ve had about the characters. “Hey, Kurt seems like a pervert now, but it’s only a facade to cover his insecurities” or “Jeff is only pretending to that he’s going to rape Nicole, don’t worry. This isn’t for real.”

But I can’t. I can only do my best to express the interpretation I desire the readers to have, and it’s impossible to have every single person in the world have the same interpretation. No matter what.

So did I have Nicole walk into a potentially abusive situation? Yes, and it could have just as easily turned into one, if this wasn’t fiction I was in control of. Is Nicole’s personality a valid excuse for having her walk into this relationship? Yes, and no. Yes, it is what the 18-year-old Nicole would do at this stage at her life, so I wouldn’t have changed it. But no, because it can just as easily spread the message that entering potentially abusive situations is good as long as you’re super sure you can change the other person. Which is very very untrue.

What I recognize I should’ve done was give Nicole more conflict concerning this. I could have had her realize even more so that what she did was dangerous. I could have had her struggle more with her friendship and potential relationship with Jeff since he wasn’t the nicest guy and did potentially abusive things. But I didn’t do this, and I apologize.

While I do think you made a few heavy misinterpretations, your analysis as a whole is valid and understandable. I respectfully appreciate the points you made and can only hope you understand the direction I was coming from as well. I guess what I’m trying to say is that I overall agree with your points, but I don’t agree with your interpretation.

For those who haven’t played the game and are reading this, I urge you to try the demo or watch someone stream it before you allow me or anyone else to influence your opinion. You’re the only one who can solidify your opinion in the end, but there’s nothing wrong with doing your research.

As for the other points you made about Kurt and Ted, I’ll address them later for it’s very late at night and I really should’ve slept already, haha. I just wanted to address this sooner rather than later. This goes for any points you think I may have missed. Please ask anything. I’m only happy to explain my intentions and understand what I could’ve done different or better.

Okay, so I’m going to leave on that note. It’s late at night and I haven’t edited this so I’m sorry if there’s something that doesn’t make sense!! There will also be no tl;dr because y’all need to read. Thank you for your time!

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iWeasle
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Re: Violence as Romance: Can We Please Not?

Post by iWeasle » Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:57 pm

jack1974 wrote:
Spoiler:
the whole "romance" with Jeff was a bit weird, not writer's fault though since I made the base story, probably was better to not make him a dateable character in the end.
Wait, but haven't you said that you are making one of the dateable girls in the Yuri version the kidnapper? :?: Is this because since it was one of the romances in the original or because you only just decided that it was a mistake :P ?

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jack1974
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Re: Violence as Romance: Can We Please Not?

Post by jack1974 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:00 pm

I changed that because if the kidnapper was the same as in the otome, people who already played the otome would be a bit spoiled, so to keep the interest up we thought to do this.
I meant maybe was a mistake the "whole setup/idea" that one of the love interest was the kidnapper, but I don't know since some people liked it. I think depends on tastes :)

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iWeasle
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Re: Violence as Romance: Can We Please Not?

Post by iWeasle » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:03 pm

Now I'm confused (prally not your fault, I get confused easy :lol:), is the kidnapper one of the love interests or not in the Yuri version?

AntonSlavik020
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Re: Violence as Romance: Can We Please Not?

Post by AntonSlavik020 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:09 pm

Yes, it will be.

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Thee Forsaken One
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Re: Violence as Romance: Can We Please Not?

Post by Thee Forsaken One » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:09 pm

iWeasle wrote:
jack1974 wrote:
Spoiler:
the whole "romance" with Jeff was a bit weird, not writer's fault though since I made the base story, probably was better to not make him a dateable character in the end.
Wait, but haven't you said that you are making one of the dateable girls in the Yuri version the kidnapper? :?: Is this because since it was one of the romances in the original or because you only just decided that it was a mistake :P ?
The decision to change the kidnapper was not made by him. It was made by the development team for the Yuri version. We felt that it made no sense to keep Jeff as the kidnapper mostly because we were finding it impossible to include him in the story without it looking random and awkward. The announcement does somewhat spoil it, though, since part of one of the routes is suspicion being cast on Jeff but it turns out it's not him.

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jack1974
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Re: Violence as Romance: Can We Please Not?

Post by jack1974 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:11 pm

Hopefully not many people read the forums (I don't think, compared to the "whole internet")... sometimes I get too carried away answering people's question :oops:

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jack1974
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Re: Violence as Romance: Can We Please Not?

Post by jack1974 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:35 pm

I'm going to lock this thread now since the writer has explained his reasons, and besides contains too much spoilers :)

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