Framework Sneak Peek

Discuss the sequel to Planet Stronghold here
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Franka
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Re: Framework Sneak Peek

Post by Franka » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:35 am

I'm against too much minutiae. Having to fiddle with ammo types for every single kind of weapon just bogs the game down to needless managing and clicking. Ammo types are fine, so long as the intent is to limit the use of the most powerful weapons, or to add an extra tactical dimension during combat itself (reloading, switching ammo), but I hope that's all it will be used for.

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jack1974
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Re: Framework Sneak Peek

Post by jack1974 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:13 am

Yes that's the good old problem... some people hate micromanagement, while other like it. Personally, I don't like it, though when I was younger I was playing games with lots of micromanagement!
So yes maybe there's no need to have separate ammo for EACH weapon, but could be like in Fallout 3, where there is ammo that works with 2-3 weapons, another ammo that works with 2-3 and so on (thinking about laser weapons and plasma weapons for example).
I just remembered that Anima is doing the main game design for PS2 (my task will be to populate the database and make the encounters), so I'm sure he'll do a good job anyway! :mrgreen:

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Jaeger
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Re: Framework Sneak Peek

Post by Jaeger » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:59 am

Micromanagement is required in most RPGs, from checking your party's condition to the inventory. Equipping your party the right way was important in Planet Stronghold since enemies had varied levels of defense against certain types of attacks. It's wasn't as important in Loren since the game was considerably easier and the impact of equipment was less dramatic. An improved user interface for inventory management can alleviate some of the tedium. Having an "Unequip All" and "Optimize Equip" would reduce the need to hunt down equipment used by certain certain party members when trying to swap gear.
Last edited by Jaeger on Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jack1974
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Re: Framework Sneak Peek

Post by jack1974 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:14 am

Yes the equipment screen is completely revamped by Anima, I saw a preview and is much more intuitive (also in PS2 there are still less armor/weapons slots than Loren).
But an "optimize equip" button what would exactly do? Doing automatic equipment?

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Jaeger
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Re: Framework Sneak Peek

Post by Jaeger » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:14 am

jack1974 wrote:Yes the equipment screen is completely revamped by Anima, I saw a preview and is much more intuitive (also in PS2 there are still less armor/weapons slots than Loren).
But an "optimize equip" button what would exactly do? Doing automatic equipment?
"Optimize Equip" command, which is used in Final Fantasy games, automatically chooses the "best" equipment for a character. That usually means the weapon with the highest base damage and armor with the highest physical defense. Granted, it is flawed in the sense that it doesn't take into account special properties or bonuses unique to the piece of equipment, however it might appeal to lazy players who don't want to compare equipment.
Last edited by Jaeger on Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jack1974
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Re: Framework Sneak Peek

Post by jack1974 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:24 am

Ah OK. The problem is that it doesn't also consider the elemental bonus/weaknesses. But it's a good system, personally I prefer when there's a icon or the best item/weapon is highlighted somehow. Like you browse the pistols, and you can sort them based on damage. I think with the new equipment screen layout that Anima designed it should be very simple to do (or maybe he already planned that). Doing the auto-equip could also be possible, maybe with some extra options like "pick best energy weapon" and so on. Will talk with him later about it :)

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DunKalar
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Re: Framework Sneak Peek

Post by DunKalar » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:09 pm

I think it will be a challenge too, to take the chosen skill distribution into account. E.g. the algorythm has to include synergy effects between skills and such.

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Re: Framework Sneak Peek

Post by Anima_ » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:15 pm

While I can see the appeal of an auto equip I hope that it wont make much sense for PS2. In (earlier?) FF games new equipment only increased a single core number per equipment class, everything else was just a bonus. Our goal is to have more meaning in the choice of your gear then just take whatever does the most damage. Of course I can still write a function for that, it's not too hard. It won't be that optimized though.
The inventory will definitely get a sort function, maybe a filter as well. Depends on the number and kind of items in the game.

My current plan is to restrict ammunition only by kind. So guns get bullets (Still thinking about including or excluding sniper rifles), while energy weapons get batteries. Heavy weapons have more variety and the ammunition for that might actually be unique to a weapon.

@Seloun
Still thinking about that.Thought about it.

There are three variants for magazines we have to consider.
  • Weapons have an ammunition capacity and universal magazines can infinitely reload the weapon the are attached too.
  • Universal magazines have an ammunition capacity and reloading weapons will require switching magazines.
  • Weapons have an ammunition capacity and can be reloaded from separate finite universal magazines.
The second is right out. I'd rather have design space on the weapon then on the magazine.
The first is also out, it violates my design principle that in an encounter all resources are finite.
Witch leaves us with the third, our current approach. Refilling the magazines after an encounter would be easy enough and wouldn't violate the afore mentioned design principle, since it's still finite in an encounter.
The problem is that the weapons are directly associated with the ammunition not the magazine. We could change it that they get loaded from a magazine instead. Which raises questions like which magazine is attached to the weapon and if the attachment is exclusive. Is it required to have the magazine equipped as an item? Would the initial loading be deducted from the magazine capacity?

Personally I think it's a good idea. But I'll have to talk with Jack about it, since it touches the "map" game mechanics as well.
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jack1974
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Re: Framework Sneak Peek

Post by jack1974 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:21 pm

The third approach is fine for me, as long as there is some basic ammo always available to avoid bad situations were people run out of ammo in an encounter (unless we add an option to hit enemies with the guns themselves :lol:).
If I understood what you mean I would make the attachment exclusive to each weapon. So we couldn't have:
Weapon A that can use Magazine X,Y with different capacities
I don't see much the sense in having different magazine sizes? it seems to overcomplicate stuff for nothing. Maybe there would be weapon that can carry more ammo, like an upgrade.
In summary I would make the magazine "transparent" to the user, something I could use internally to define a weapon. For example:
Normal Pistol = attach magazine size of 12
Special Pistol = attach magazine size of 15
and so on. Like in real life, there are weapons like the Colt that can carry 6 rounds, while a Beretta can carry 21 (I think, I'm not sure but you get the idea). Then of course you can carry different ammo type, incendiary ammo, freezing ammo, etc.

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Re: Framework Sneak Peek

Post by Anima_ » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:16 pm

Discussed it with Jack.
We'll be going with a resetting magazine approach.
So the ammunition type is specific to the magazine and the magazine is refilled after a fight.
Weapons retain their individual capacities. They are simply filled from the magazine at the start of a fight and with a reload action.

It's possible to run out of ammunition inside a fight now, though it's now impossible to run out of it outside of fights.
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