Will I be able to exclude characters from my party?

Forum for the upcoming Loren Amazon Princess sequel
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jack1974
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Re: Will I be able to exclude characters from my party?

Post by jack1974 » Sun Dec 13, 2015 6:52 am

Troyen wrote: On the other hand, having everyone in every single plot discussion is too much. Too far the opposite direction, where it feels more like I'm in a lunchroom than a mission briefing because everyone needs to slip in a joke or a tangent to show their presence.
I agree, that was a bad decision on my side, but future games won't have that again.
Troyen wrote: Ideally, I could pick my party and only talk to those people, but if that option is off the table... :P
Yes it's impossible, would make the game delay more and more. And writers could go nuts (and there could also be plot holes,etc).
Troyen wrote: What about balance? Most sequences include no more than five characters (exceptions for the really important ones, also 5 is an arbitrary number), but which five characters can vary depending on what you're doing plotwise. Maybe Draco doesn't have that much to say about the dwarven city, but he might have some comments when in the elven lands or stuff dealing with fire. Maybe Apolo speaks up when discussing history, human settlements, or when he wants to get on Myrth's nerves, but likewise doesn't have much to contribute during the dwarven area.

I kind of feel like the writers are obligated to include all the characters all the time plotwise, when perhaps spacing out appearances would help. The non-leader characters each get roughly even showtime in X scenes, but not all necessarily at the same times, and sometimes in different combinations to keep it interesting.
It already works like that in Loren 2, while the main characters take the decisions, depending on the situation the most appropriate one speaks (like Selith when there's to infiltrate an enemy camp site for example).
Troyen wrote: I don't know, I actually did keep everyone relevant and tried to rotate compositions not based on what was optimal but what would fit the story. And even then it got kind of tedious. It's cool for the first few characters - your main characters and primary combat players - but when it comes time to figure out if you want to upgrade the fourth mage versus the fifth thief...it doesn't really matter all that much anymore.
Yes it's like that in all RPGs, I don't like it much personally, while some other players might like that. That's why I pushed for the auto-assign button :)
Troyen wrote: It sounds like equipment is simpler in Loren 2, but you still have a lot of attributes to assign, and the auto-picker honestly hasn't been very good thus far.
Equipment will have 3 slots, though you'll be able to use socketing to have different effects. Auto-picker in previous games was based on archetype, so assigning strength to warriors, skill to thief and so on. I think worked fine honestly?
Attributes/skill is still in the early stages of design anyway, but for sure if you want to have total control you need to manually do it.

P_Tigras
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Re: Will I be able to exclude characters from my party?

Post by P_Tigras » Fri Dec 25, 2015 6:27 pm

Personally I like larger parties. The more interaction there is, the more alive the world feels. And if one or two party members annoy you, you're not stuck with them as your main interlocutors for the entire game. Finally, unless I find someone annoying, I don't like leaving anyone behind in camp as I consider that unrealistic, and leveling up and equipping characters who aren't in the main team is a bit of a pain since it requires grinding.

As for making one-time decisions that determine party composition, that's fine and all in theory, but every such fork increases the overhead, and thus the writing time, significantly. And these sorts of decisions add up in a way that make carrying them over into a sequel all but impossible. Bioware's Dragon Age series is riddled with annoying little inconsistencies as a result, and this despite the fact that they gave up and went with an entirely new protagonist for each installment of the series in an effort to minimize the workload of old variables they needed to carry over and integrate into the stories of newer installments.

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Miakoda
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Re: Will I be able to exclude characters from my party?

Post by Miakoda » Fri Dec 25, 2015 6:39 pm

P_Tigras wrote: As for making one-time decisions that determine party composition, that's fine and all in theory, but every such fork increases the overhead, and thus the writing time, significantly. And these sorts of decisions add up in a way that make carrying them over into a sequel all but impossible. Bioware's Dragon Age series is riddled with annoying little inconsistencies as a result,
And something some people forget is that for indie games, it tends to be just one writer like with Winter Wolves stuff whereas larger companies like BioWare have whole teams to crank out dialogue.

P_Tigras
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Re: Will I be able to exclude characters from my party?

Post by P_Tigras » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:09 pm

Yep, Bioware has a far larger budget and a lot more people to commit to each project, yet even they struggle with the complexity of all the choices they make available in the game. Expecting a small indie company like Winter Wolves to pull off a similar level of choice, and thus complexity, just isn't feasible.

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jack1974
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Re: Will I be able to exclude characters from my party?

Post by jack1974 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:50 pm

I'm reviving this old thread, because I just discovered how the Fire Emblem's "Support" System works :)
(I don't own a 3DS so I haven't played those games, but I read an article on Gamasutra).

I think it's cool and would work well on a game like Loren 2 but also PS2, and would force people to use the other characters more. For those unfamiliar with it, this is the article I read:
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/ZackWood ... System.php

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Exizel
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Re: Will I be able to exclude characters from my party?

Post by Exizel » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:06 pm

So the reason you told me in the past that something like the support system was to much work was because you didn't know how it works :-P

Edit:it looks like the article doesn't talk about the S rank from the 3DS game where the characters become a couple after A rank.
Edit 2:I'm surprise that he/she knows Geneology of the Holy War.

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jack1974
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Re: Will I be able to exclude characters from my party?

Post by jack1974 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:16 pm

Or maybe was during one of my "burnout periods" :lol: when even just thinking about new features gives me a headache!

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Exizel
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Re: Will I be able to exclude characters from my party?

Post by Exizel » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:19 pm

Maybe, one things I know is that people loves shipping their characters together so idea to do something like support isn't bad

kadakithis
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Re: Will I be able to exclude characters from my party?

Post by kadakithis » Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:30 pm

in SotW I had more trouble with being only able to talk to 2 people. I generally like smaller parties because that leaves more room for characterization, so was surprised that was the game that limited character interaction the most.

I guess 6 people could work if they were all romanceable? 6 chracters allow for 2 options across the board, while still a little leeway?

Personally I agree that sometimes, especially in PS:CD, the amount of jokes and tangents in every single plot scene was a bit suspension of belief. I like the idea that 4 at most, except in important choices where most would have an opinion. But for me thats just a little thing, I really don't mind much at all and dont think (for me!) its something you need to put extra effort. They are good games.

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