Resource management

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Franka
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Re: Resource management

Post by Franka » Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:17 am

jack1974 wrote:I like this idea, so that during battles you can get some sort of permanent injury, that is fixed only by doing something extra (at extra time/money cost).
No nonononononono...

"Oh, the RNG gods were against me, I'll reload the encounter."

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jack1974
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Re: Resource management

Post by jack1974 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:19 am

Haha well there are SOME PEOPLE that reload/rollback continuously the shops to get the best items... can't do much about that :mrgreen:
(Or maybe I can, add an iron-mode that disables all those tricks hehe)

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Re: Resource management

Post by renke_ » Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:20 am

jack1974 wrote:
renke_ wrote:So "real" recovery should only be possible outside of combat with sleeping or buying food/drink in taverns?
I like this idea, so that during battles you can get some sort of permanent injury, that is fixed only by doing something extra (at extra time/money cost).
If I followed the argument correctly we have two different ideas here: Temp recovery for SP (Anima_) and temp recovery for HP as a modification of the first proposal (renke_). The first one is imho not that great, as it restrict even more access to skills.

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yayswords
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Re: Resource management

Post by yayswords » Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:45 am

jack1974 wrote:Haha well there are SOME PEOPLE that reload/rollback continuously the shops to get the best items... can't do much about that :mrgreen:
(Or maybe I can, add an iron-mode that disables all those tricks hehe)
There'll be an equipment thread, don't you worry. Restock roulette is a symptom, not a disease. There are many things I could do for power that I don't do :)
If at first try it doesn't explode, it ain't Jack who wrote the code.

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Re: Resource management

Post by renke_ » Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:10 pm

Complete different approach (_not_ a complete concept, just a small idea): What about using HP as a backup mana pool? Without SP it could be still possible to use skills, but the cost is subtracted from the health pool. Most likely not useful as a general function but it could be enabled by a trait (I would call it Z73.0, though more TVTropes high-fantasy compatible is Blood Magic or similar) or a skill (similar to the one that allows the next skill usage without cost, this one would use the HP pool instead)

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yayswords
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Re: Resource management

Post by yayswords » Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:36 pm

Rowinda has that in the form of Dark Empathy. Everywhere I see the concept it's associated with warlocks. Not sure it would feel right being available to everyone.
If at first try it doesn't explode, it ain't Jack who wrote the code.

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Anima_
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Re: Resource management

Post by Anima_ » Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:43 pm

Those mechanics usually lead to feedback loops. Since you trade in resource A for resource B that can be used to restore resource A. Depending on the conversion rate it can lead to an effectively infinite mana pool. Though it doesn't have to be practical or a problem.
Still I think you two are trying to bind books with a chainsaw instead of glue. Your stated goal is that abilities should always be usable, but you are trying to make that work with a mechanic (the mana pool) which whole purpose is to limit the use of abilities. Either you change what the pool does, so that abilities can be used regardless or you scrap the whole mechanic for something else.
For example a que system: You have a sequence of abilities, but can you only use the first three or so abilities in the que. Once used the ability goes to the back of the que. A variant I've been thinking about for a duel system uses a graph. The ability you used this turn will determine which abilities you can choose from on the next.
Or you could create a tiered ability system. All abilities generate "manapoints" for the next higher tier. Tier 0 abilities would be free and fuel the Tier 1 tools, which fuel the Tier 2 specials, which fuel the Tier 3 finishers. It pretty much creates a climatic structure to the battles just with the mechanics.
There are tons of possibilities outside of mana and cooldowns.
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Re: Resource management

Post by renke_ » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:07 pm

yayswords wrote:Not sure it would feel right being available to everyone.
sure, not for everybody - but it would be fine for Mesphit (in my book daemons are as auto-aggressive as the cause harm to others), Chambara (teleporting sadistic witch, this screams blood magic) or Amukiki (fights to death, preferable the one of his enemy)
Anima_ wrote:Still I think you two are trying to bind books with a chainsaw instead of glue.
hey! I like chainsaws! can I have one for Vaelis?
Your stated goal is that abilities should always be usable
not exactly _always_ - but I see some issues with the current system. my lvl 1 druid has enough blue stuff for 2 nukes (maybe 3) and this feels too restricted, he's a fscking magician but cannot use magic regularly. later on (with 200+ pools) this is more relaxed, but I often restrict myself using skills as I'm not able to plan the next fill-up of the pools (okay, only a problem for the first couple of plays, but normally I don't replay many games). On normal difficulty bashing the family mercs with base attacks is doable, but it is not satisfying: I have a huge arsenal of really cool skills and cannot (or imagine I cannot) use them.

I don't know how to solve this, but I hope someone will cut the Gordian knot :)

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jack1974
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Re: Resource management

Post by jack1974 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:56 pm

renke_ wrote: hey! I like chainsaws! can I have one for Vaelis?
Image

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Re: Resource management

Post by renke_ » Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:14 pm

I literally lol'd :)

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