the polygamy thread (SPOILERS!!!!)

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jack1974
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Re: the polygamy thread (SPOILERS!!!!)

Post by jack1974 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:04 am

I am thinking to list Ruby/Lynn/Cosmina under "poly romances". It's not true for Ruby, but probably would piss players less if done this way? I'm not sure what to do. For me now the important thing is to clearly tell players what to expect.
Sigh I though I could resume working on Undead Lily this week, but this thing is delaying me too much :(

edit: OK maybe I will just list them as they are:
3 otome romances (Daniel, Bernard & Lair)
1 yuri romance (Ruby)
2 poly romances (Lynn & Cosmina)

Lynn it's not really poly romance (since it can end as yuri) but probably people will be less pissed this way :)

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Re: the polygamy thread (SPOILERS!!!!)

Post by Troyen » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:35 am

jack1974 wrote:I am thinking to list Ruby/Lynn/Cosmina under "poly romances". It's not true for Ruby, but probably would piss players less if done this way? I'm not sure what to do. For me now the important thing is to clearly tell players what to expect.
Sigh I though I could resume working on Undead Lily this week, but this thing is delaying me too much :(

edit: OK maybe I will just list them as they are:
3 otome romances (Daniel, Bernard & Lair)
1 yuri romance (Ruby)
2 poly romances (Lynn & Cosmina)

Lynn it's not really poly romance (since it can end as yuri) but probably people will be less pissed this way :)
Yeah, this is what I was referring to - the game marketing page overcounts. I think it'd be more clear up-front like that. Technically there's that one route for Lynn that ends non-poly, but it's a 1/4 (and I don't know how many people pick Dark+ by default).

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jack1974
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Re: the polygamy thread (SPOILERS!!!!)

Post by jack1974 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:37 am

Yes you're absolutely right. The main issue is telling players clearly what there is in the game. I updated my game page now, hopefully is clear? I wrote:
- Three otome romances (Daniel, Bernard & Lair), one yuri romance (Ruby)
- And for the first time, two poly romances (Cosmina and Lynn)

I'm also going to add in the game the distinction when you are asked to choose which romances to enable/disable at beginning of adult age.

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Re: the polygamy thread (SPOILERS!!!!)

Post by Madance » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:18 am

I approve this! ^_^

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Re: the polygamy thread (SPOILERS!!!!)

Post by Minamber » Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:38 pm

Troyen wrote: Yeah, this is what I was referring to - the game marketing page overcounts. I think it'd be more clear up-front like that. Technically there's that one route for Lynn that ends non-poly, but it's a 1/4 (and I don't know how many people pick Dark+ by default).
There's also only 1 route that ends in a poly relationship, since in both others Amber gets dumped. However, there are probably more people who'll pick the light+ route first, that's true.

So since Lynn is half-yuri, half-poly for the routes that are successful, I'm not sure straight out describing it as a poly romance is more honest that describing it as a yuri one.

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Re: the polygamy thread (SPOILERS!!!!)

Post by P_Tigras » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:33 pm

Having peeked at the CG pics before playing the game, I have to say that I had initially assumed that Cosmina light was a yuri ending based on the CG. I'm saddened to hear that you can't have a romance with Cosmina without also being involved with Reed. I will comment further once I've played through the game a few times.

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Re: the polygamy thread (SPOILERS!!!!)

Post by P_Tigras » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:14 am

jack1974 wrote:Today reviewed the texts and spoke with Forsaken who raised some good points.
for Cosmina/Reed
Spoiler:
This is more complex, since indeed it's a route not just about Cosmina, but about Cosmina AND Reed. The blog post introduced both of them for that reason too.
I think the biggest problem is that how was planned it would be hard to change, since if you played it, they have sex even before the ending for all possible choices, and in the next scenes they always talk happily ALL of them.
So I am not sure honestly at this point what to do. I need to put some warning for sure, maybe change Cosmina's portrait to have both Cosmina and Reed (this way should be more obvious). For Lynn is different as you read above.

I know I said I would do those changes, but today I reviewed Cosmina's route and that would really be a lot of work to make it "yuri only".
Spoiler:
Would be weird to have them sleep all 3 together, and then at the end of the story have Amber reject only Reed for whatever reason :oops: And also think that Cosmina would be OK with that. Quite jarring and unrealistic.
I know it's a bit disappointing for yuri-only fans. On the other hand, remember what I said at the beginning of the thread: originally there was Ruby ONLY. And the storyboard/images were done years ago. Future yuri games won't have any of those issues, you can be sure of it.
Ok, I've now read through the Cosmina dialogues...

I think you're an awesome publisher Jack, but I believe this is your burn-out speaking here. You don't need to have Amber reject Reed at the end. Instead give the MC playing Amber an opportunity to make it clear to Cosmina in chapter 5 when Cosmina mentions that Reed would like to spend more time with Amber too that she is far more interested in Cosmina than Reed, and set a variable that puts her on either the existing Reed+Cosmina track, or on a new Cosmina-only track depending on that answer. Then make which of the two royals Amber goes on a date with in chapter 6 dependent on that variable instead of the currently rather arbitrary Cosmina05Dark. A second love scene that is Cosmina-only will need to be written in chapter 7, but Cosmina's behavior towards Amber in the existing threesome scene can be used as a basis to build around. So it doesn't need to be completely written from scratch. Chapter 8 requires only a pair of one line edits, one at the beginning (you only spent time with Cosmina in your bedroom, not Cosmina and Reed) and another at the ending of the scene (you gave passionate kisses to Cosmina, not "to them both"). Chapter 9 will require the banter/pda while travelling in Troll country looking for the Deathless Grey to be made dependent on which relationship track the MC is on, so that will require a bit of editing, but it's not unreasonable.

As for why Reed would step aside for Amber, Reed and Cosmina already mention that they made a bargain with their family that they could be married if no match was found for either of them within five years." Alas, if the MC is on the Cosmina-only track, then the match for him in Zoltar was already found. Furthermore he knows that unless Cosmina finds new love she's going to take his upcoming marriage very hard, so he's setting her up with Amber whom they both greatly like because Cosmina's happiness is extremely important to him and he doesn't want to see her suffer at his wedding. This should be explained in chapter 9, and I expect that Cosmina will express some guilt that she's enjoying herself so much with Amber in front of Reed, and Reed will gently and gracefully absolve her of her guilt, and then crack a joke about how hot it is too watch his two favorite women kiss. lol.

In chapter 10 the only change needed for the Cosmina-only track is for Amber at the end to think to herself about how much she looks forward to spending time with Cosmina instead of both Reed and Cosmina together. In CosminaFail, Reed's betrothal isn't anything new for the Cosmina-only track, but it's still time for him to leave, just as before. In CosminaEnd, instead of asking the King if she can marry both Reed and Cosmina as her reward during the Dark and Light+ endings, she'll ask if she can marry Cosmina. In the dark ending the King will tell her that she can't marry Cosmina, instead of both Cosmina and Reed, and in the Light+ ending she'll get to marry Cosmina instead of Reed publicly, with no following private ceremony. The lines containing intimacy with Reed at the end of the Light+ ending for the Cosmina-only track will need to be removed and replaced with two or three lines about Reed wishing Amber and Cosmina well before inviting them to his own wedding in Zoltar.


Anyways, For what it's worth, the above is how I'd recommend integrating a yuri romance for Cosmina within the existing story. The most significant changes for the Cosmina-only track would be a new Cosmina-only love scene in chapter 7 and track-dependent pda/banter edits in chapter 9. The rest is just book-keeping.






.

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jack1974
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Re: the polygamy thread (SPOILERS!!!!)

Post by jack1974 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:51 am

For sure I'm burned out :mrgreen:
However, I also got some private messages/emails/feedback (some people are lazy or don't want to talk in forum for some reasons) and many are happy about the poly endings. Quoting a few:
...In summary, all I really wanted to say is: thank you for making a game with poly-amorous route. I think your mistake was to not clearly label Cosmina (and Lynn even if that one is more tricky because you can still get a yuri ending) as poly-only routes when you announced the game.
Personally: I think it's great that you had this kind of romances, I consider us a minority, very under-represented in games, even more than gay/lesbian people. I feel sorry for yuri players but, anyway, it's not like there won't be plenty of yuri games out next. Like the nomads game in your patreon. Man, those "outfits" puts Loren's to shame. You know what I mean!
Etc etc. So, I think my main mistake was to not be upfront about the game contents but now I think it's fair if I have ONE game with some poly romances. As those users said, there are so many yuri games planned (none with threesomes/harem endings).
One thing I haven't done yet though, it's a poly romance with more women. I must do this too in a future game 8) :twisted:

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Re: the polygamy thread (SPOILERS!!!!)

Post by Franka » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:17 am

The only reason I haven't spoken out is that I haven't played any of the poly routes. I understand that some people expecting yuri are disappointed, but I also think it's a great move to finally do some true poly routes in your games. I admit that I didn't expect them to come at the "cost" of true yuri routes, and I can see how that might be upsetting, but I really don't think (speakng as a yuri fan myself) that anyone's entitled to have the game "fixed" to their personal preference.

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Re: the polygamy thread (SPOILERS!!!!)

Post by jack1974 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:41 am

Yeah main issue was on my part for labeling them yuri, when it's clear that even the original/previous writer never intended them to be like that. I repeat myself again, but in future I'll be VERY careful to not make such mistakes (by mistake I mean labeling "wrong" a romance type, not that having poly route was a mistake in itself).

Also because I don't plan to get myself so burned out again in future :mrgreen:

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