Most Disappointing Ending Since Mass Effect 3 (OUTDATED)

A dating / life sim for all tastes set in college
nightshadengale
Young scout
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 3:14 am

Re: Most Disappointing Ending Since Mass Effect 3 (SPOILERS)

Post by nightshadengale » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:23 am

I'll be honest--just hearing that Dominic's ending was bad no matter what killed most of my excitement for the game as a whole. That's the path I was most excited about playing, and even though I was excited about some of the other ones, the excitement-killing effect of hearing Dominic's ending was bad was not a precision weapon. My overall feelings about the game just went from "Ooo!" to "Oh. =\" I fully admit that it's irrational, but the fact is that I have had no motivation to start a new game since reading that--despite the fact that I bought Anne's version and haven't played as her yet. (The fact that my one playthrough was Sally who has the other bad ending didn't help.)

I agree with a lot of Rooke's points above, and I don't get the argument that you can just romance someone else if you want a good ending. Deciding who to romance should be based on which personality you're most interested in, but this turns the choice into "do you want a happy ending?" For me, having one romance path have a bad ending and the others have good endings is like having the game tell you "So you know how you thought so-and-so was compatible with your character? YOU WERE WRONG." Which is not a nice feeling to get from a game, and does not engender positive feelings towards the game as a whole.

Jack, you say people should focus on the main arc of the romance rather than the epilogue--but I don't think everyone can separate them out. I can't enjoy the romance arc if I know the relationship is doomed in the end.

User avatar
Aleema
Official writer
Posts: 223
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:03 pm

Re: Most Disappointing Ending Since Mass Effect 3 (SPOILERS)

Post by Aleema » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:15 am

jack1974 wrote:I am not so sure if ALL the romances should have happy ending honestly?
In my humble opinion, yes. As the developer, it's easy to see all endings at once and then wish them to display variety, some good, some bad. However, to a player, each ending could very well be their only ending. Or at least their first ending. It will have an impact on the player, who may be very invested in what the ending has to say. If you really, really like Dominic, it's going to hurt that you chose Dominic's route to be one of the "not happily ever after" variety, simply for variety's sake.

And there's the matter of how do you, the developer, come to decide who gets happy and who gets un-happy endings? This is where bias comes in. As the person who makes the ultimate decision, you could very well make the characters you like to be the ones that get happy endings, thereby snubbing the rest of the characters. This is dangerous, since most developers are straight men, male romance options (like Dominic) end up getting poor treatment, because they want to see their favorite characters (the girls) get happy endings. So, ultimately you end up creating a game that doesn't reward women or gay men.

Mass Effect is an example of what not to do. Because most their development team was straight men, the male romance characters were given depressing endings. (Spoilers) Thane was given a terminal disease and you watch him die from it. Jacob cheats on you and impregnates another woman. I'm sure in the grand scheme of things, the developers thought it would be interesting to have romance characters die and cheat on you. I can't argue with that. But if you look at the female romance characters, you get happy times across the board (hell, even one of the characters is "designed to be the perfect woman.") It's unfair. Probably unintentionally, but their oversight made me not feel welcomed as a customer.

So I'm firmly in the camp of universal happy endings, if you earned them. Otherwise, I'll probably end up getting screwed.

User avatar
jack1974
Pack leader
Posts: 13412
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: Most Disappointing Ending Since Mass Effect 3 (SPOILERS)

Post by jack1974 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:20 am

What, even my own writers are against me now!! Oh no, all is lost! :mrgreen:
OK, all right, I understand the point. I think having at least ONE OPTION to get a happy ending, with the required stats, even harder to get, makes sense. And at least is an easy change, is not like the game needs to be rewritten. I'll also have a happy ending for Sally too since was the only other one without it.

Will change it on the next update (hopefully one of the latest of the game!).

User avatar
Sylrissa
Druid
Posts: 465
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 8:56 am
Location: Australia

Re: Most Disappointing Ending Since Mass Effect 3 (SPOILERS)

Post by Sylrissa » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:06 am

Aleema wrote:
jack1974 wrote:I am not so sure if ALL the romances should have happy ending honestly?
However, to a player, each ending could very well be their only ending. Or at least their first ending. It will have an impact on the player, who may be very invested in what the ending has to say. If you really, really like Dominic, it's going to hurt that you chose Dominic's route to be one of the "not happily ever after" variety, simply for variety's sake.
That's a very good point Aleema, and while some people want to clear every ending, others will only want to play one gender, and may only have one romance partner they are interested in. Yes they would be missing out on a lot of in-game content, but they bought the game same as everyone else and imo should have the same valid right to finding a satisfying conclusion at the end of the game.
So I'm firmly in the camp of universal happy endings, if you earned them. Otherwise, I'll probably end up getting screwed.
I've said this before, but feel free to make the option as difficult as you please, just as long as the option exists at all, I'd be happy in knowing that I have the possibility as long as I work hard enough to earn it.

I'm glad to see Jack has gotten the message loud and clear, so I'll try to stop harping on about it too much, we love your games and only want to see you improve <3

SparkleBits
Young scout
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:11 pm

Re: Most Disappointing Ending Since Mass Effect 3 (SPOILERS)

Post by SparkleBits » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:20 am

I'm glad to see Jack has gotten the message loud and clear, so I'll try to stop harping on about it too much, we love your games and only want to see you improve <3
Exactly, if I didn't love your games so much I would probably just brush my disappointment off, it's a great game maker who can make people CARE about what happens to the characters/plot.

So thanks for listening :D

User avatar
jack1974
Pack leader
Posts: 13412
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: Most Disappointing Ending Since Mass Effect 3 (SPOILERS)

Post by jack1974 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:14 pm

Sylrissa wrote: I've said this before, but feel free to make the option as difficult as you please, just as long as the option exists at all, I'd be happy in knowing that I have the possibility as long as I work hard enough to earn it.
Yes, in this case will simply be the combo stats > 600. For SOTW I'll have to think something to have an happy ending even with Chalassa, it will be more difficult but I have something in mind already :mrgreen:

User avatar
Miakoda
Elder Druid
Posts: 871
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:05 pm

Re: Most Disappointing Ending Since Mass Effect 3 (SPOILERS)

Post by Miakoda » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:35 pm

It has to do with player agency in sim games. In a sim game, the player feels as if they have a fair degree of control over the gaming world. You raise your stats, you pursue some people, problems arise but depending on your character and your choices you can make things work. To have that invalidated by saying yada yada 2 years on it fell apart, robs the player of that agency...Sims are stat and choice games where you should be rewarded for having good stats and making good choices. If you aren't rewarded for having high stats and making good choices on your chosen route, what's the point of playing the sim? It doesn't matter how good the writing is on that particular arc, if there isn't the option to succeed then, imo, the sim loses some appeal.
Rooke30, I will admit I was one of those who had no problem with a 'bad' ending in a game, but this argument alone was so-well put, I agree with you and changed my mind. Not so much for rpgs, but a dating-sim certainly makes sense.

I would add one exception, though, if it was made quite plain in the game that a certain character might 'move on' for various reasons. For example, in Roommates Isabella explains how she plans to go back home after she graduates. Logically, I know then that her romance with either character might be limited to her going back. If one was to extend this in a hypothetical sequel, if I played as Max, and in that sequel I had the choice of making my career 'go', or go with Isabella, I do think that would be a valid break-up epilogue then.
In my humble opinion, yes. As the developer, it's easy to see all endings at once and then wish them to display variety, some good, some bad. However, to a player, each ending could very well be their only ending. Or at least their first ending. It will have an impact on the player, who may be very invested in what the ending has to say. If you really, really like Dominic, it's going to hurt that you chose Dominic's route to be one of the "not happily ever after" variety, simply for variety's sake.
Which is also a very good point as well, Aleema. I don't tend to get so invested in my characters, but most players do, and should be accounted for.

hreyes1990
Young scout
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:01 am

Re: Most Disappointing Ending Since Mass Effect 3 (SPOILERS)

Post by hreyes1990 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:08 am

Omg as I read the comments on here I was beginning to feel disappointed I was looking forward to this game I am a big fan of your games. But I'm glad a happy ending will be added. For me even if the whole story was amazing and epic if the ending is not a happy one in games like these it ruins the whole game for me. I feel relieved now. I will be buying both female and male version when it's officially out XD looking forward to playing

User avatar
DunKalar
Woods ranger
Posts: 243
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: Most Disappointing Ending Since Mass Effect 3 (SPOILERS)

Post by DunKalar » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:38 pm

jack1974 wrote:
Sylrissa wrote: I've said this before, but feel free to make the option as difficult as you please, just as long as the option exists at all, I'd be happy in knowing that I have the possibility as long as I work hard enough to earn it.
Yes, in this case will simply be the combo stats > 600. For SOTW I'll have to think something to have an happy ending even with Chalassa, it will be more difficult but I have something in mind already :mrgreen:
I certainly hope so :-( When you can't have a happy ending with her, I won't buy this game :-D And you will never have any of my self made cookies :-P

(she is hawt, I like her attitude <3)

Legendzerox
Young scout
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:55 am

Re: Most Disappointing Ending Since Mass Effect 3 (SPOILERS)

Post by Legendzerox » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:32 pm

SparkleBits wrote:As you can probably tell from the title MAJOR ENDING SPOILERS AHOY for Dominic in specific but I would think
all the endings do this.

So did you guys totally forget about the anger people had at Prince Cliff's ending in PS? You kind of just did it again.

I loved this game a whole lot, it was tons of fun and a joy to play and the ending killed it for me. It really sucks to play through a whole game trying to get a character's ending and have the game end with 'and then we broke up a couple of years later'. Yes I know it's realistic and most people don't marry their college lover but this is fiction and if the ending didn't flat out say they broke up it would be less discouraging. I understand a lot of people won't care but I believe a lot of people will.

This has completely killed my desire to get the endings of the other characters, I am very disappointed. I have played at least 5 of your games and this is the only one that upset me so. Other than the ending this is a top notch game which makes it that much worse.
LOL the ending reminds me off the LorenxElenore ending in Amazon Princess. "BTW Loren gets killed by an unnamed amazon."

Post Reply