Queen Of Thieves beta 0.9.1 (release candidate)

A fantasy otome RPG about three young thieves with special skills
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myoksy
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Re: Queen Of Thieves beta 0.8.8 (release candidate)

Post by myoksy » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:34 pm

Third (?) story dungeon, when appealing to the priest's religion: The guy says "Let's see how you well you fight without your magic!" but the following combat has no starting conditions and all chars have full mana.

About the pacing (too much gold) I mentioned in the last beta thread: it's even worse now, I have some 60k of gold I'm at level 15 : )
I don't think it's plausible that the trap replacer is at fault - the function was at most triggered twice (I started nobles at lvl 4 with the initial gem, the following two houses had iirc 2 gems each).

my explanation approaches are this ones:
- this time I seduced the guard guy, but I'm not sure if half of the random encounters are worth that much XP
- the new layouts have more places with treasures, especially larger mansions: only 5 different traps and if a house has, say, 9 rooms at least 4 are non-traps. it could be useful to allow some trap types more than once per mansion (the only one I would exclude are vault and green house, both are imo unique features of a noble's mansion)

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jack1974
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Re: Queen Of Thieves beta 0.8.8 (release candidate)

Post by jack1974 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:50 pm

myoksy wrote:Third (?) story dungeon, when appealing to the priest's religion: The guy says "Let's see how you well you fight without your magic!" but the following combat has no starting conditions and all chars have full mana.
He strikes Joanne, so she starts paralyzed. At least last time I tested it was working fine :)
myoksy wrote: About the pacing (too much gold) I mentioned in the last beta thread: it's even worse now, I have some 60k of gold I'm at level 15 : )
I don't think it's plausible that the trap replacer is at fault - the function was at most triggered twice (I started nobles at lvl 4 with the initial gem, the following two houses had iirc 2 gems each).

my explanation approaches are this ones:
- this time I seduced the guard guy, but I'm not sure if half of the random encounters are worth that much XP
- the new layouts have more places with treasures, especially larger mansions: only 5 different traps and if a house has, say, 9 rooms at least 4 are non-traps. it could be useful to allow some trap types more than once per mansion (the only one I would exclude are vault and green house, both are imo unique features of a noble's mansion)
Well an easier system without touching the layouts again (which can lead to bugs right now just before the release and it's something a good coder should NEVER do :wink:) is simply modify slightly the gold multiplier. As you advance in the story, I give the mansions more "potential gold". It's enough to tweak that value lower, since now the things have changed from when I did that calculation.

myoksy
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Re: Queen Of Thieves beta 0.8.8 (release candidate)

Post by myoksy » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:00 pm

jack1974 wrote:He strikes Joanne, so she starts paralyzed. At least last time I tested it was working fine :)
I am nearly sure that my whole party was able to act in the first round - no one had a debuff I remember
modify slightly the gold multiplier. As you advance in the story, I give the mansions more "potential gold".
actual gold is not the problem - it's (sold) gems.

myoksy
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Re: Queen Of Thieves beta 0.8.8 (release candidate)

Post by myoksy » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:01 pm

"problem" is the wrong word, and I'm still not sure if my current game is a freak outlier. more opinions are needed...

myoksy
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Re: Queen Of Thieves beta 0.8.8 (release candidate)

Post by myoksy » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:21 pm

...a handful of noble mansions later...

okay, I think I got it: your first work-around for the wall crashing party were redesigned layouts. and the new layouts are generally larger (i.e. more chances to find gems). I made one complete play-through after the randomizer change but before the layout tweaking - and the pacing was near perfect. not that I have a proof (only my porous memory : )) but when you look at your code history I am nearly sure that the mansions have more rooms since ~ 0.8.1.

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jack1974
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Re: Queen Of Thieves beta 0.8.8 (release candidate)

Post by jack1974 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:47 pm

I never changed the layout for the nobles (the one who have more gems). Using your randomizer there are probably more chances to get a treasure room. I can tweak it so that it's less likely to happen, but people can still get the gems from the various traps. The thing is that they still have to defeat the enemies.
If you think the current game is too easy, have you tried playing in Hard/Nightmare mode? otherwise, if you have a super party full of gems and win easily, but are playing in Normal mode, you can't complain. I added the difficulty levels exactly for that! :lol:

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jack1974
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Re: Queen Of Thieves beta 0.8.8 (release candidate)

Post by jack1974 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:06 pm

Ah I actually found the issue. In the treasure room itself, if the value of the treasure is >50 gold, you get a gem. Since I increase gold value over time, it's also more likely you get a gem. So yes, tweaking the gold amount added to the targets will also solve this problem :)
Will upload a new version tomorrow with this change.
BTW I tried to play a few battles in Hard mode with your super party level 34, and had a hard time against the mercenary pit. I had to use a potion to save my ass. I can't imagine in Nightmare... :lol:

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Pace675
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Re: Queen Of Thieves beta 0.8.8 (release candidate)

Post by Pace675 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:21 am

jack1974 wrote:Ah I actually found the issue. In the treasure room itself, if the value of the treasure is >50 gold, you get a gem. Since I increase gold value over time, it's also more likely you get a gem. So yes, tweaking the gold amount added to the targets will also solve this problem :)
Will upload a new version tomorrow with this change.
BTW I tried to play a few battles in Hard mode with your super party level 34, and had a hard time against the mercenary pit. I had to use a potion to save my ass. I can't imagine in Nightmare... :lol:
Lol give Yayswords this challenge.... :P

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jack1974
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Re: Queen Of Thieves beta 0.8.9 (release candidate)

Post by jack1974 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:11 am

Just did an update, tweaked a bit the values but honestly thinking about it, it was a bit pointless: you can run the shop to get more money anyway, and even if I have reduced the amount of noble treasure rooms, people can get gems anyway defeating enemies in the "trap rooms".
Even the GUI change is mostly a display thing. So just a minor update in practice :)

myoksy
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Re: Queen Of Thieves beta 0.8.9 (release candidate)

Post by myoksy » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:12 am

jack1974 wrote:if you have a super party full of gems and win easily, but are playing in Normal mode, you can't complain
it sounds as if you're mad at me, sorry if my comments sound aggressive or derogatory - they are not meant this way
Using your randomizer there are probably more chances to get a treasure room.
I compared 0.7.4 and 0.8.8 for treasure rooms and vaults, the two main gem sources. normal disclaimers are valid: this is only true for an infinite amount of robbed houses and this can include calculation errors.

Vaults are good for 1.5 gems in average, treasure rooms for 1 (not exactly true, but in this ballpark).

Code: Select all

      0.7.4                   0.8.8
ID    Treasure  Vaults  Gems  Treasure  Vaults  Gems
0     1.5*      0.75    2.6   2.35*     0.75    3.5
1     0.5       0.56    1.3   1.17      0.67    2.1
2     0.5       0.42    1.1   1         0.33    2
3     0.5       1.06    2.1   0.75      1*      2.3
4     0.66      0.28    1.1   0.93      0.5     1.7
5     0.5       0.64    1.5   0.2       0.33    1.2
6     0.5       1.64*   3.0   0.31      0.31    0.8
7     -/-       -/-     -/-   1.42      0.62    2.4
                average 2.1             average 2.3
*) of which one is guaranteed
So generally the amount of gems is very similar between 0.7.4 and 0.8.8 - but as those are averages for infinite robberies the actual game can be very different.

I don't remember my "argh! level 6 already and only 3 gems!" in detail, but it is likely that I visited often the dungeons 5 and 6. My current game with way too much available gold gives me often mansion 0 (I remember the blueprint).

With the wide range of gem drops the pacing will be different from game to game - this can be seen as good or bad, I have no clear opinion.

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