alpha build 0.5.8

[jack1974]

Just did a quick update fixing the skill description problem and Kira's protect since were making game a bit unplayable (in particular the first one). About the green number yes I noticed, though not sure if I can do something (in the game it detects if are changed, comparing them to base stats). I'll do next update tomorrow probably reading also your other notes on skills

[yayswords]

There's room in the stat window, could you put immunities there? Or do you want us to discover them ourselves?

Kira
5 will, rest skill
Protect and Stun

Joanne
Full offense
Magic Sparks

Thalia
Full offense
Throwing Knives -> Backstab -> Sudden Strike

Probably the strongest party so far.

I have been feeling for a long time, but not quite been able to put into words, that while this damage system is easy to understand it promotes all-or-nothing builds. I've never had someone get "a little strength" or "a little accuracy", it's always all or nothing. And given how rewarding it is at least with these low numbers I don't see myself changing that mentality unless I'm already oneshotting everything and certain I can keep doing that (and then I'd probably take speed lol), or I just cannot possibly survive without taking defensive stats.

For what it's worth I'm still not really quite able to put this into words.

With larger numbers, say 60 str 60 acc, if I took another point in a damage stat I'd only get a ~1.67% damage increase. But at small numbers with like 10/10, another damage point is worth +10% damage (the % increase is the same no matter the enemy's defense) and I'd be a fool to refuse. Maybe there's a way to keep the swings from being so dramatic without using larger values or a trickier system. It actually works for defense too though - going from 1 to 2 defense halves your damage taken, but going from 19 to 20 isn't anywhere near as significant.

Also I'm very skeptical about increasing health, even on Kira. For 1 point I get... 2 health. Is +1 defense going to effectively help much more? Surely. Until everything hits Kira for 1, but that just doesn't happen. And if it does then I'll just get speed or SP. Sure health improves heals, but it also improves DoT's.

I think enemies could use some raw damage nukes, unaffected by strength, accuracy and defense. This would mean defense stacking isn't the easily best solution to any survivability problem as far as stats go, and also you could make it pierce Protect so enemies could use it on Joanne and Thalia. Since it's not affected by defense you don't need to figure out how to make it dangerous to high defense Kira without making it oneshot her sisters.

Hell you could even give the sisters raw damage nukes too (make them ignore acc/str/def but scale with level). At least it would let a 0 offense Kira still do damage. She actually doesn't tend to reach 1 damage hits unlike a 0 offense Joanne does, but I think Kira just starts with more offense or has more on gear. Anyway Strike Through and Wide Slash do almost the same thing so there's room for it.

Back to the previous point though, +2 health for 1 point is too weak.

Oh and lastly. Tornado hits 3 targets and are you for real, Invisibility +3% to all resistances? I'm almost sorry for calling Bramble Coat bad. I thought it would be +3 to your defense stat against elemental attacks.

[yayswords]

Rereading my own post (which I've edited 20 times) I see a contradiction of the offense/defense logic. After all they both have diminishing returns so to speak and your very first defense points have huge benefits. There are however two reasons not to bother with defense on Thalia and Joanne.

1) I just need to use Protect on whichever of them has aggro, and all attacks will go on Kira anyway.
2) If I don't go HAM on the offense, I'll need more attacks to kill opponents, and take more damage that way anyway (the best defense is a good offense). Things really fall apart when Kira dies, and when that happens my thoughts are, I wish I could have killed them faster or I wish I could have kept Kira alive longer, not I wish I had 4 more defense on Joanne and Thalia to tank this now. Now actually, Dodge is very well suited to those situations, but Thalia has no mana when Kira dies anyway.

[Troyen]

Is there any splash damage at all? Are you completely separating the party?

It's one thing for most of the attacks to go to Kira, that's all right. But if the other characters -never- take damage from any source (even reduced damage), then of course defense won't matter. Some way to get a little amount of damage in on the others without totally negating the aggro mechanic would help encourage taking some hp/defense on the two squishies or else you risk them dying over several turns.

[jack1974]

Started reading your posts today
Invisibility adds +1/2/3 on all resistances. The values can be changed of course, since indeed if the Skeleton mage does 15dmg with the Fire Blast, 1 is not much I'll make it be 4/8/12 so should be stronger (12 point of elemental damage reduction is a lot at expert level!).
Regarding your observations:
- I can easily change the starting stats, so that they're in the 15-20 range already at level 1. That would make assigning a point in a stat be less "dramatic" of course enemies stats would change too.
- remember you're fighting just 2 basic monsters. Advanced monsters could cast dispel on Kira's Protect. Have attacks that ignore armor as you suggested. Or attacks that hits all sisters even if are apart, etc. This alpha is just to test if the base system works, but the possibilities with enemies AI are endless (well maybe not endless but I can create some really nasty AI enemies!)
- I will try with +5HP every 1 point (or maybe 4HP at first). That should be better already!
- regarding skills will tweak them as you suggested. Bramblecoat indeed does too little damage, and will tweak others too

[jack1974]

Is there any splash damage at all? Are you completely separating the party?

Yes also that, I wanted to give some bonus/malus when choosing the positioning. Against an enemy party that uses AOE maybe positioning the party closer would be a bad move, but with a enemy only having single target attack, being close could help: Shieldwall for example. I might also change some other defensive buffs to be AOE to encourage this together/split mechanics more.

[jack1974]

now you know how much the aggro is I'm displaying it on the right part of character details.
I've tweaked a lot the skills and values, but once again remember that this is just a test. I am interested in stuff like:
- Bramblecoat damage does little
- Bug XYZ on Mirror Damage, etc

and so on. Yaysword suggestions about the skills were very good (almost as always) since some really were unbalanced.
Instead feedback regarding those specific battles are a bit pointless right now since most is related to the enemy AI. It would be enough for me to have the Skeleton Mage target the weakest party member, or add a AOE damage, or like I have done now add Protect to the Skeleton Warriors that it would change completely the battle dynamics so this isn't really about the game mechanics but specific enemies, and this can be discussed when the game beta is out (with the real encounters), now is too early.

Anyway quite pleased by results so far, I think after next update I'll pause a bit the testing of this to design the encounter system itself (or check other projects since there is still some writing/art to do for this game).

[yayswords]

Flat values always have scaling problems. They might be good early and gradually begin to suck. Invisibility giving 1/2/3% has the problem of sucking hairy sweaty ratman balls always better it gave 25/50/75%... are resistances halved vs. spells like in SotW?

Same with Bramble Coat anyway. You can tweak the values but at best you'll make it an overpowered spell if you rush to it, but one you begin to regret every skill point spent on as the game progresses. If you keep the values static that is. Bleeding would always scale.

[jack1974]

No resistances are flat values. For example:
5 fire resistance.
Enemy cast fire blast for 20 dmg
Resulting damage = 20 - 5 = 15
I didn't want the resistances to reduce the damage too much to avoid problems.

Anyway, I can change all those skills to use percentage based values. For now I just put fixed ones but is not a big change

[yayswords]

I didn't want the resistances to reduce the damage too much to avoid problems.

And how did that turn into "give all skeletons 99 dark resistance"? :D

Not that we seem to be able to cause that kind of damage anyway. Even the poison attack is unmitigated. Anyway let's see how that works out then.