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abnaxus wrote: I think the point about Amazons is that they train for combat their entire lives so they are stronger than the average man.

And that would make them a better fighting force than most armies in those 'eras', which were made up of conscripts.

If you possess the ability to puncture someone, you possess the ability to kill them. Soldiers don't go out and wrestle each other to death. We created weapons with the exact purpose of helping us kill people. It doesn't matter how much each combatant can bench press if they leave any of their vital organs and body parts open for single moment for a single attack. They've been bested. So to believe that women aren't capable or valuable on the field comes down to one thing: your own personal perception. I'm put out that we're even having this discussion because apparently a some of you thought that Amazons, for the mere reason of being female, weren't actually tall or strong. They are. Yes, even in comparison to human men.

This is the last I'll say on this issue so that we may move on.

To answer a previous question, Uren was taller than Karen, who is taller than Loren. I'm not good with actual measurements, sorry.

Well, now that we are all settled on the previous and slight discriminatory discussion, I would like to ask about something silly, but that made me curious all the same:

FOOD.

Yes, food. Generally, all fantasy worlds have their own typically made up foods and drinks, so just imagine the troubles over something like chocolate would entail? They cannot mass produce anything, so if a country have the control over something that the others don't, they would get the attention and the prestige over the said product.
Now, why did I ask about this? Oh well, it was mentioned that the Amazons have a very delicious wine, I imagined that their kind of wine would grow only in Amazon lands. It would be interesting to see in future games simple references over the commerce or how people appreciated and enjoyed something simple. In a world building point-of-view, it's nice to know what the population enjoyed and lacked.

Imagine this:

Commoner1: Man, I love this peace treaty with the elves and the "Amadons".
Commoner2: You mean the AMAZONS!
Commoner1: Yeah, whatever. I love this peace, 'cause now I can have my wine without paying the smugglers so much.
Commoner2: I don't know, my pal told me another day how they made poisoned wine especially for men!
Commoner2: Dude, you're crazy. I don't care, gotta enjoy my wine, regardless of what you think.

This kind of conversation over silly things might help a bit in the world building, at least, that's is what I believe.

Wow! This thread has been very busy while I was away...

Lonestar51 wrote:

P_Tigras wrote:Modern fantasy tales tend to assume all sorts of things that never existed in medieval times, ie. modern morals & cultural values, the plentiful availability of reliable birth control, modern extended childhoods until the age of 18, women soldiers as strong as men, etc.. Adding in adequate nutrition enabling people to reach their maximum possible height isn't really that big of a deal on top of all the rest.

While I agree that most fantasy stuff has only loose ties to anything resembling realism, I actually prefer those works where the author thinks before adding changes "just because they are cool".

I agree with you here. I have a preference for gritty realism myself. Nevertheless with a bit of careful worldbuilding, what might otherwise seem totally unrealistic, may be made entirely reasonable.

In the case of amazons I can easily believe that the selective pressure is inverse to other humans: females are selected for being big (height) and general toughness, while males are selected for being submissive, and without a strong preference of any given height. (Yes, this is just the other way round as for us.) Thus amazons would be as big as male humans, and male Amazons would be as big as human females. And just to be sure, there is also a cost for being too big.

Now I can see anyone handwaving this away, in the name of "just because it is cool". But add too much fairy dust to the story, and the work is no longer consistent, or interesting. Then anything can happen, and nothing makes sense. Do it sparse, and when you do it make it meaningful, and explore the consequences, then I like it. But too often it is just horrible.

Well these are my 2 cents.

I'm with you on the hand-waving. I consider hand-waving sloppy storytelling. "Cool things" do not happen in a vaccum. They have consequences, and they also are the consequences of previous actions. They thus need to be integrated into the story via skillful world-building, and not just sloppily bolted on to achieve the author's agenda or check off some checkbox.

Madance wrote: Now, why did I ask about this? Oh well, it was mentioned that the Amazons have a very delicious wine, I imagined that their kind of wine would grow only in Amazon lands. It would be interesting to see in future games simple references over the commerce or how people appreciated and enjoyed something simple. In a world building point-of-view, it's nice to know what the population enjoyed and lacked.

Haha that's really a good suggestion
(especially since in the sequel there's a character that is a drunkard- ahem, enjoys wine)
I suppose that dwarves produces the finest beer is a bit too clichè?

jack1974 wrote:

Madance wrote: Now, why did I ask about this? Oh well, it was mentioned that the Amazons have a very delicious wine, I imagined that their kind of wine would grow only in Amazon lands. It would be interesting to see in future games simple references over the commerce or how people appreciated and enjoyed something simple. In a world building point-of-view, it's nice to know what the population enjoyed and lacked.

Haha that's really a good suggestion
(especially since in the sequel there's a character that is a drunkard- ahem, enjoys wine)
I suppose that dwarves produces the finest beer is a bit too clichè?

That is a great suggestion Madance. This is the sort of thing I was talking about in the World Building thread as well.

Heh, as for the dwarves, I remember in one game I ran they were the finest gourmands in the land...they were smiths, but of edibles rather than metals

BTW, I just wanted to add that I agree with rooke30 and abnaxus on the earlier discussion regarding regarding the strength disparity between men and women, as well as about women in combat in general. On the other hand all of the facts of which I'm aware contradict Kharlene's earlier statements, and I'm aware of many, but I'll hold off on posting a wall of text unless someone really wants to get into this discussion. That said, I don't have an issue with how Loren as an Amazon has been depicted as being stronger than most men. Sufficient world and character building have been done for me to find it believable. In fact I've grown highly fond of Loren as she is, and no I don't find my masculinity threatened by her in the least.

jack1974 wrote:

tnek89 wrote:Okay, so do you guy's know the exact heights of each character? And *cough* Uren *cough*.

Ehm, about this, please remember to not use the sprites/drawing as a STRICT reference! In the first Loren's CGs for example she doesn't seem *much* taller than Elenor/Saren, and same for other characters. They're just a representation, so don't be too much nitpicking about the sprite sizes. If I was making a 3D game it would be easier to have an absolute scale of heights

I get that part. I mean like the actual heights of the characters (For example, Loren=6 ft tall) Just so I know who's taller than who. XD Sorry for the confusion!!!!!!!! XD

Aleema wrote:If you possess the ability to puncture someone, you possess the ability to kill them. Soldiers don't go out and wrestle each other to death. We created weapons with the exact purpose of helping us kill people. It doesn't matter how much each combatant can bench press if they leave any of their vital organs and body parts open for single moment for a single attack. They've been bested. So to believe that women aren't capable or valuable on the field comes down to one thing: your own personal perception. I'm put out that we're even having this discussion because apparently a some of you thought that Amazons, for the mere reason of being female, weren't actually tall or strong. They are. Yes, even in comparison to human men.

This is the last I'll say on this issue so that we may move on.

To answer a previous question, Uren was taller than Karen, who is taller than Loren. I'm not good with actual measurements, sorry.

But YAY!!!!! UREN!!!!!!!! So did Uren do anything special during her lifetime? Like, did she make any laws or win any wars?? XD And how do you pronounce Uren correctly?

Thing about dwarf beer is not that it's... good, per se, as much as hearty and nutritious. Dwarves can live off beer alone for months at a time. It doesn't give them a balanced diet, of course, but it is very high-energy, high-protein food. Vitamins and stuff are probably mushroom-oriented.

It would be interesting to think about Demons culture. Favorite food? roasted humans