No Money

Otome dating sim: http://www.winterwolves.com/loveandorder.htm
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Feldion
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No Money

Post by Feldion » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:51 am

I do not know if this a bug or not but no matter how much work you do for each of the four interests, you only get 10 dollars at the end of the week. For the most of the expensive items, this seems to mean that you have to save up for 20ish weeks in order to get enough money.

As I said, I don't know if this is a bug or not.

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jack1974
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Re: No Money

Post by jack1974 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:59 am

Well you can buy the vest in the beginning of the game when you start with $100. To be honest, I haven't been able to get the $200 watch myself either (I didn't code this game but I played it a lot as tester). I'll let C.Love (the coder/author) about this.
Just to know when you downloaded the game? She recently updated it (14th feb) and made the game easier to play so now you might be able to save more money?

Christine
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Re: No Money

Post by Christine » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:50 pm

It's not a bug! If you don't do any work overtime, you don't get paid very much.

Orusaka
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Re: No Money

Post by Orusaka » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:10 pm

Yeah, I figured the money wasn't a bug, however it might as well have been. I've been meaning to type up a review, and that's just one of the many, many things that are horribly wrong about the game. Essentially, to summarize my main point about money: You don't get money without overtime (well, $5), however you cannot work overtime, as it adds 10% stress, and things start going bad as low as 20% stress.

What I do hope is a bug, though, is how when I courted Ross, he would take me on dates, and I would pay. At first I figured, hey that's fairly modern, but then he took me to the expensive eat, or whatever it was called. Gave a chuckle, at any rate. Then he said it was expensive, but you deserve a treat. So yeah, don't court Ross if you want any chance at any money at all.

All that said, though, the money is probably the lesser of the design flaws in the game. I'll have to seriously consider whether to take the time to write a proper review, I just don't know if anyone would actually care to read it. Also, I'd have to that inane series of fed-ex fetch quests two more times to feel I've really seen everything there is to see. Something came off it, though; I decided to go back and play some of the old classics to see if my tastes just changed, or if I was an imbecile back then, but no, they are still awesome, and this game is still very, very flawed.

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jack1974
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Re: No Money

Post by jack1974 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:53 pm

hi, sorry that you find the game flawed. What are the old classics you refer to?
Just to know, have you tried my other game Spirited Heart and if so, what's your opinion of it? trying to understand your point of view :)

Orusaka
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Re: No Money

Post by Orusaka » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:45 pm

jack1974 wrote:hi, sorry that you find the game flawed. What are the old classics you refer to?
Just to know, have you tried my other game Spirited Heart and if so, what's your opinion of it? trying to understand your point of view :)
Fair enough. I will rant for a bit on my perceived shortcoming in the game. No time for a proper review, but I'll put down some bulleting points.

1. There is no game.
How you chose to make a dating sim a game varies a bit, but there always is a game. There really is no game here, however. All there is, is what in RPG terms is called the fed-ex (or fetch) quest. The entire game is just go there, do something. A lot of it doesn't even make sense in the context of the business. I mean, seriously, this guy sends me to print a document for him? So, let me get this straight; instead of using your printer, you want me to take your file, go to my office, print the document and bring it back to you?

Now, in one respect this system works, in the sense of making me feel like I'm working as a secretary in an office. Or in other words doing mind-numbingly boring busy work.

2. You cannot lose the romances
This really blends into my first point. There really is no point in playing if you can't realistically lose the game. (and yes, I know you can get fired, but that's nothing to do with the romances.)
Most dating sims introduce stat points for the player character to build in order to shape a persona attractive to the potential romancee, as it were. This is one popular way of introducing gameplay to the genre. Another important part is interaction with the characters you are trying to romance. This game has none. Or rather, it has one simple question about what type you are, and no matter what you answer they say they were hoping you'd say that, which actually defeats the entire purpose of the romance in the first place. When your potential romances just adjust to whomever you are, there is no point in playing. (since you can't possibly lose) A lot of the fun inherent in dating sims is making out and nailing someone's personality, and then opting to either play them to show off that you've broken their personality, as it were, or speak your mind, and actually offend them.

3. I'm running out of time, so I'll just add whatever odds and ends I can think of here
Delay tactics:
For some incredibly stupid reason the game is trying to stop me from enjoying it. Point in case, when you get close to unraveling the mystery, you suddenly get called into a million meetings. It got bad enough for me that I got called in twice a day for a bit. Why? What possible purpose does it add to artificially lengthen the game with something boring. Especially when the gameplay in the first place is mind-numbingly boring already?

Money vs. Stress:
Well, I already covered why this doesn't work at all.

I guess that's all I can really rattle off on the spot. I'll think about, perhaps I can dig up more flaws. To cap it off, though, I must say I enjoyed the writing, much as I expected to. I actually came across the site for the rampant coyote blog and his post about upcoming indie rpgs he was looking forward to. So, in the process of buying Planet Stronghold I see that you have developed a new dating sim, a genre I enjoy quite a bit, and even better, it's written by the person that wrote digital: a love story, a game I absolutely loved and adored. So I add it my cart on a whim. So while the writing was good, it nowhere near justified the price tag, at least not for me, but you live and you learn, I guess.

edit: Forgot to address your other question. No, I have not played Spirited Hearts, but going by the screenshots and summary, it sounds very interesting. So does Flower Shop for that matter. As for the classics I dug out, they were respectively Pia Carrot he youkouso and bloody bride. Both great games, however, I chose them mostly because they're in English and my Japanese has gotten horribly rusty.

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jack1974
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Re: No Money

Post by jack1974 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:05 pm

Ok thanks for the review. I don't think is fair for me to comment much at this point - if Christine wants too, she will. Just one thing, she wrote clearly in her blog (and I wrote it in my blog as well) that people shouldn't expect something similar to Digital at all. Though reading your post it seems that the light-theme and setting was ok and your concern are more about gameplay.

One question, did you try the demo first? I always recommend to try the demos since you can get a very good impression of the game :)

If you have time and are willing to post some short feedback also on my own games (Planet Stronghold, Flower Shop, Spirited Heart) I'll be glad to listen since is hard to find people who give constructive feedback nowadays :oops:

p.s. I don't know the games you mentioned but I'm going to search for them - I didn't play many dating sims in the past but I want to look around for inspiration!

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Re: No Money

Post by Orusaka » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:28 pm

jack1974 wrote:Ok thanks for the review. I don't think is fair for me to comment much at this point - if Christine wants too, she will. Just one thing, she wrote clearly in her blog (and I wrote it in my blog as well) that people shouldn't expect something similar to Digital at all. Though reading your post it seems that the light-theme and setting was ok and your concern are more about gameplay.

One question, did you try the demo first? I always recommend to try the demos since you can get a very good impression of the game :)

If you have time and are willing to post some short feedback also on my own games (Planet Stronghold, Flower Shop, Spirited Heart) I'll be glad to listen since is hard to find people who give constructive feedback nowadays :oops:

p.s. I don't know the games you mentioned but I'm going to search for them - I didn't play many dating sims in the past but I want to look around for inspiration!
Well, as I said, it's not a review. A review would be aimed at a customer trying to figure out if s/he would be interested in the game. What I gave were some analytical insights into why I feel the gameplay doesn't work.

Yes, you are very much right. I don't mind a light setting, or the mystery or anything related to the writing, really. That was all pretty good, and the only reason I managed to motivate myself to sit through the gameplay. The overarching feeling I took away from the game was that it would have been a lot better if you just stripped out the "game" part and just made it a movie.

As far as the possibility of knowing what I was in for, as I said, I bought it on a whim. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. It's not like I'm here shouting abuse demanding a refund. I don't think I ever expected anything like digital: a love story, though. In fact I wouldn't even necessarily expect typical dating sim gameplay, but that would be under the condition that the gameplay replacing it is actually fun, and in the very least not a long series of fetch quests.

As far as the games I mentioned, they are very good examples of dating sims, and they're in English, which is a plus for most. They might be hard to find now, though, as they're older games. Fair warning, though, the first one I mentioned, Pia Carrot he youkoso is a series of eroge. That fact is not why they are great games, but they still are, so if that kind of thing offends you, you should stay away from it. The first game was fan-translated a while back.

http://projects.mattsmessyroom.com/welcometopiacarrot/

As for Bloody Bride, that one is a really inventive one where you are a vampire and you have to convince a girl over the course of a few years to let you suck her blood wilfully. Oh yeah, and at night you have to roam the streets, 16-it rpg-style and fight monsters. It, too, was fan translated a while back.

http://www.romhacking.net/trans/560/

If you'd like to play either, I can help you get links as I went on a basement adventure and dug out the old discs. Not that I condone piracy, mind you, but it's not like there is any way you could possibly buy them. As for feedback on your games, I will certainly drop a few words once I have time to play Planet Stronghold, and I think I might just check out your other dating sims. They seem interesting. I wish there was more time in the day.

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jack1974
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Re: No Money

Post by jack1974 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:47 am

Orusaka wrote: If you'd like to play either, I can help you get links as I went on a basement adventure and dug out the old discs. Not that I condone piracy, mind you, but it's not like there is any way you could possibly buy them. As for feedback on your games, I will certainly drop a few words once I have time to play Planet Stronghold, and I think I might just check out your other dating sims. They seem interesting. I wish there was more time in the day.
Yes, using ROMs sometimes is the only way to play some old classic games from 1990 or so :)
And I hear you there, I wish days had 36 hours each!!

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