Bionic Heart 2 - prototype

A dark sci-fi visual novel: http://winterwolves.com/bionicheart.htm
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MarSel
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Re: Bionic Heart 2 - prototype

Post by MarSel » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:17 pm

BxB I know it what it means as a gay man but as I have said in past posts about Star Ocean 2 BxB Didn't necessarily mean they were dating but their relationship had changed from being good friends to BEST friends who share life together. It might be hanging out at a bar checking out the women or fighting alongside each other (depending on the game) I was just thinking along these lines for TomxLuke ending.

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Aleema
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Re: Bionic Heart 2 - prototype

Post by Aleema » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:15 am

I think what you're referring to is "bromance". :mrgreen:

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Themobboss
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Re: Bionic Heart 2 - prototype

Post by Themobboss » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:50 am

jack1974 wrote:Oh, I know that game well, I played it, even if I was stuck at first "boss fight" (I suck at action games!).
I'm going try to do what you suggested, have those boss fights only in key points of the game, but since the other characters are normal persons, I can't use the skill system or "special powers". Beside, I realized it could become a total pain to write/code :oops:
I'll use a goal-based system though (you need to reach 100%), and keep the traits, so you'll have to guess the right answer based on the target's traits, and each answer will reward you with a certain amount of points. There will be less strategy than it is now, but still there will be some, and probably won't be a too big change for people who were used to the first game system :)
How about this for a thought. What if normal conversation options and choices throughout the game carried hidden skill values that added up over time? Presenting players with let's say three options. For example if Luke is wanting Helen to leave the apartment you could have a [confrontational/aggressive] choice, a [diplomatic/reasoning] choice, and a [seductive/manipulative] choice. Choosing one would add 5 points to that skill, major path changing choices might carry higher values. When the player arrives at a boss fight they would have effectively created the character skill set via story choice (like creating Saren/Elenor). A player that has consistently chosen one flavor of response has effectively announced their normal personality( or programming) and in a confrontation it would be fluid and natural (high skill) and other options that have been ignored will be less effective (low skill). In a face off there would be the interaction between the skill level of the response flavor the player chooses to use and the resistance the boss has to that line plus some randomized amount thrown in. If the player fails on the first try they could try a second time with that same skill (with a penalty) or try another skill.

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X and Y
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Re: Bionic Heart 2 - prototype

Post by X and Y » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:26 am

@Aleema Indeed, it would probably be not wise to shut rollback down completely. I can be a bit draconian with solving problems sometimes, hahaha.

I certainly wouldn't put Luke and Tom together. I just don't feel the chemistry between them to begin with and they just don't scream BxB to me (maybe bromance instead like MarSel suggested) the way Tina screams homoerotic inclinations to me (yeah, I'm obviously not letting this go).

To be honest, however, I don't foresee Tina's GxG relationship (if there were one) to be as explicit as pairings in other games (like Loren, for instance). I suspect she would be a lot subtler and angstier in her overtures (I'm thinking subtext with the possibility of evolving into maintext) - London in 2099 ought to be pretty tolerant, eh?

@Anita Thank you for the compliment. Jack and I are reworking a lot of things and the actual game might be completely different from the prototype, but so glad you liked it!

@Themobboss I really like your suggestion. It would be more fluid with that setup, but I don't know how hard it would be for Jack to code.

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Aleema
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Re: Bionic Heart 2 - prototype

Post by Aleema » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:48 am

X and Y wrote:To be honest, however, I don't foresee Tina's GxG relationship (if there were one) to be as explicit as pairings in other games (like Loren, for instance)
Then you should tell Jack ASAP before he commissions two-naked-girls-kissing CGs. :lol: He gets CGs done early (sometimes before writer is even brought on board).

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jack1974
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Re: Bionic Heart 2 - prototype

Post by jack1974 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:45 am

Marsel: ah yes true, doesn't necessarily needs to be explicit. I surely could add something like that, I always pictured Tom as being a bit jealous of Luke, but also maybe really worried about him for "other reasons" :wink:
Themobboss: yes I thought about using a system like that. It is still a matter of how hard is to implement since could lead to lots of possible different combinations on each choice, that needs to be tested! But is surely an interesting idea.
X & Y: yes I don't see Tina being very open, I would think her would be very sympathetic with Tanya because of her situation and indeed something very subtle, like the Tom-Luke one.
Aleema: what!! I never commission naked girls kissing CGs... oh wait yes, you're right! :lol: (there are also two naked boy kissing in PS sequel, by the way)
No for this game the artist didn't even finish the main characters sprites yet, so there's still time before I commission any CGs :)

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X and Y
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Re: Bionic Heart 2 - prototype

Post by X and Y » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:33 am

[quote]Then you should tell Jack ASAP before he commissions two-naked-girls-kissing CGs. :lol: He gets CGs done early (sometimes before writer is even brought on board).[/quote]

O.O

Uh, if the CGs are indeed done, I wouldn't say no to getting a sneakpeek. *coughs* On a more professional note, I yield to Jack's directions: so subtle or otherwise, I will do my best to accommodate the directions from "above".

Hahaha, I'm trying to picture explaining a potentially deeper LukexTom relationship: hmmm ... might be kind of stealthily hot.

Wait, what, only naked boys in the PS sequel? What about girls?!

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jack1974
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Re: Bionic Heart 2 - prototype

Post by jack1974 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:40 am

X and Y wrote: Uh, if the CGs are indeed done, I wouldn't say no to getting a sneakpeek. *coughs* On a more professional note, I yield to Jack's directions: so subtle or otherwise, I will do my best to accommodate the directions from "above".

Hahaha, I'm trying to picture explaining a potentially deeper LukexTom relationship: hmmm ... might be kind of stealthily hot.
Well I have in mind how to do it. It could be just something revealed in the end... you know in one of those dramatic ends where Tom needs to convince Luke not to... oops, that is top secret! Don't want to spoil the fun :o
X and Y wrote: Wait, what, only naked boys in the PS sequel? What about girls?!
Oh, PLENTY of naked girls too don't worry! :mrgreen: in general, the pictures are softer than Loren (which has the hottest images) but still some definitely more hot than the first Planet Stronghold game!

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jack1974
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Re: Bionic Heart 2 - prototype

Post by jack1974 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:14 pm

Themobboss wrote: How about this for a thought. What if normal conversation options and choices throughout the game carried hidden skill values that added up over time? Presenting players with let's say three options. For example if Luke is wanting Helen to leave the apartment you could have a [confrontational/aggressive] choice, a [diplomatic/reasoning] choice, and a [seductive/manipulative] choice. Choosing one would add 5 points to that skill, major path changing choices might carry higher values. When the player arrives at a boss fight they would have effectively created the character skill set via story choice (like creating Saren/Elenor). A player that has consistently chosen one flavor of response has effectively announced their normal personality( or programming) and in a confrontation it would be fluid and natural (high skill) and other options that have been ignored will be less effective (low skill). In a face off there would be the interaction between the skill level of the response flavor the player chooses to use and the resistance the boss has to that line plus some randomized amount thrown in. If the player fails on the first try they could try a second time with that same skill (with a penalty) or try another skill.
Well, I'm thinking I'm going to follow your advice. There's just one major point: for this to work, I think during the "boss fight" the player must preselect what attitude he wants to use, or the game preselects it based on previous choices. This because is really hard to mix for example manipulative/seductive scenes with intimidating ones. For example:
Tanya: "you shouldn't underestimate me, Robert. I could easily kill you."
Robert: "..." (skill check successful)
Robert: "Ha! you don't scare me!" (skill check unsuccessful)
then in the same gameplay, player picks a seductive line:
Tanya: "I'm really happy to be here with you..."
Robert: "What!? You threatened me just a 5 minutes ago? What Jack was thinking when he coded this game?" /ragequit :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

So, I think your system might work but only if you define the type of approach you want to play the boss battle. If it's auto-selected by the game based on choices might be cool because adds lots of replayability to the game. Anyway thanks it was a very good suggestion! I'm back to prototyping now 8)

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Themobboss
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Re: Bionic Heart 2 - prototype

Post by Themobboss » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:52 pm

jack1974 wrote:
Themobboss wrote: How about this for a thought. What if normal conversation options and choices throughout the game carried hidden skill values that added up over time? Presenting players with let's say three options. For example if Luke is wanting Helen to leave the apartment you could have a [confrontational/aggressive] choice, a [diplomatic/reasoning] choice, and a [seductive/manipulative] choice. Choosing one would add 5 points to that skill, major path changing choices might carry higher values. When the player arrives at a boss fight they would have effectively created the character skill set via story choice (like creating Saren/Elenor). A player that has consistently chosen one flavor of response has effectively announced their normal personality( or programming) and in a confrontation it would be fluid and natural (high skill) and other options that have been ignored will be less effective (low skill). In a face off there would be the interaction between the skill level of the response flavor the player chooses to use and the resistance the boss has to that line plus some randomized amount thrown in. If the player fails on the first try they could try a second time with that same skill (with a penalty) or try another skill.
Well, I'm thinking I'm going to follow your advice. There's just one major point: for this to work, I think during the "boss fight" the player must preselect what attitude he wants to use, or the game preselects it based on previous choices. This because is really hard to mix for example manipulative/seductive scenes with intimidating ones. For example:
Tanya: "you shouldn't underestimate me, Robert. I could easily kill you."
Robert: "..." (skill check successful)
Robert: "Ha! you don't scare me!" (skill check unsuccessful)
then in the same gameplay, player picks a seductive line:
Tanya: "I'm really happy to be here with you..."
Robert: "What!? You threatened me just a 5 minutes ago? What Jack was thinking when he coded this game?" /ragequit :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

So, I think your system might work but only if you define the type of approach you want to play the boss battle. If it's auto-selected by the game based on choices might be cool because adds lots of replayability to the game. Anyway thanks it was a very good suggestion! I'm back to prototyping now 8)
True, it's very difficult to backtrack from "or else" to "please would you". However I see a couple ways past that. First would be given the dialog as laid out above.

Tanya:"you shouldn't underestimate me, Robert. I could easily kill you."
Robert: "Ha! You don't scare me!"
Tanya: "I should have known you wouldn't be so easily swayed. Perhaps there's another way we can resolve this. I've seen the way you look at me." (Seductive second try)
Tanya: "You're an intelligent being Robert. We could resolve this situation pleasantly or unpleasantly. I'm sure you can see the benefits of coming to an understanding (Reasoning second try)
Tanya: "I can destroy a reinforced security door in 6 seconds. How long would it take to destroy you Robert?" (Intimidate second try)

Leading with a threat wouldn't preclude a non-violent second attempt, but it would take some nuance in dialog. Intimidating dialog option could also be left out as a first try but that seems limiting if that's what people choose.
The other option I could see is that there's no dialog that reflects those choices. Just offer the option of using seduction, logic, or intimidation just like Planet Stronghold might allow skills to avoid certain fights. Have some kind of visual display, with a message that your attempt has failed. On a success pick up the dialog where that path would logically pick up. On a final failure have the dialog pick up reflecting whatever was the final failed attempt.

And it could be as simple as preselected going in. Like in Dragon Age 2 if you choose snarky responses so often your default dialog is snarky. It could be an opening line of whatever you use most then that will either work or not work; at that point you open up all 3 or whatever lanes of dialog and give the player a second try with all the options on the table for a final all or nothing chance. It's going to be the magic question of how much work for how much variability.

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