RPG damage systems

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jack1974
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RPG damage systems

Post by jack1974 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:02 pm

So now that I'm finishing QoT, I noticed once again how the system I'm using since Loren/SOTW/QoT to calculate the damage is NOT good :)
I mean, it works - but it's not intuitive.
I think the system I used on Planet Stronghold was more intuitive: damage was always attack-amor (depending on attack type, different armor/resistances).
This way you could always know the result:
attack 15 - armor 12 = 3dmg
attack 8 (energy) - energy resistance 4 = 4dmg

and so on. PS was also balanced well I think.
I am thinking in future RPGs that I should keep the damage formula so easy again, and have the skills/conditions play a bigger role maybe. As consequence even the characters should have higher HP as they level up. Using this system probably even doing party vs single boss fight would work better: if the boss had 1500HP, would be hard to beat (this is how often happens in JRPG).

Using a system that scale damage based on target defense is really not good for boss fights.

I'm not sure if there's a better system, but personally I'd like to try something like this on my next RPG, maybe Planet Stronghold 2 :)

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BobTheMob
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Re: RPG damage systems

Post by BobTheMob » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:07 pm

jack1974 wrote:...my next RPG, maybe Planet Stronghold 2 :)
Speaking of still-to-come RPGs...

(Please forgive me if I seem impatient; patience never was my strong suit :oops: ) When will Loren 2 be out approx.?

DYIN to see that happen! :)
#ChambarasArmy #ChalassasFreedomFighters

Troyen
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Re: RPG damage systems

Post by Troyen » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:21 am

That's kind of how RTSes do it. If you play starcraft, it's damage minus armor, with special extra damage based on type. I think I liked the PS way better because it was more predictable. I could gain stats in Loren/SotW and sometimes my damage would go up, sometimes not, but it was hard to tell since enemies were also gaining defenses at or faster than me.

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jack1974
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Re: RPG damage systems

Post by jack1974 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:26 am

Yes that's exactly what I am saying. It's confusing for the player, even if it's all math based, is a complex formula.
The success of recent games using fixed amounts and clear formulas is obvious: XCOM, Hearthstone,Darkest Dungeon, etc. All of them use fixed damage amount.

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Jaeger
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Re: RPG damage systems

Post by Jaeger » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:07 am

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what formula you use as long as you can maintain a balance between enemy and player levels. Hitting an enemy with 1500 HP for 300 damage is the same as hitting a 15 HP enemy for 3 damage. In most JRPGs, enemy encounters are based on the party's expected level at that stage of the game. "Fixed" character growth makes it easier to predict the strength of the player party at a particular point and design enemies around it. It gets tricker when character growth is controlled by player (which is what you have been doing), as you have to predict whatever crazy build people can think of.

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jack1974
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Re: RPG damage systems

Post by jack1974 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:32 pm

Yes the thing isn't about the proportions, if 10 HP and 1 dmg or 100 HP and 10 dmg. But being clear. Right now with Loren's system, even if it's all math based, players don't have a clue how much damage they'll really do. They cannot say "I'll get this weapon so I'll do 2 damage more". They have no clue :)

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Jaeger
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Re: RPG damage systems

Post by Jaeger » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:50 pm

XCOM is as simple as they come when it comes to damage. Outside of a few traits/abilities damage is solely based on the currently equipped weapon. Armor simply adds to the HP pool rather than mitigate damage.

It should be noted the game kept everything on a small scale. The level cap is 7, and the soldiers only get 1 HP every other level., though their chance to hit and evade increase consistently. There are only 3 (4 for assault rifles) tiers of each kind of weapon. Thus, seemingly small fixed damage becomes significant since HP and attack values don't skyrocket to Disgaea levels.

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jack1974
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Re: RPG damage systems

Post by jack1974 » Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:26 pm

Yes though that is a tactical team based game, so not really a RPG. I think in a RPG would be boring if you only had 7 levels to advance :)

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