The death of your beloved character!

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jack1974
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The death of your beloved character!

Post by jack1974 » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:53 am

8) The title says all but... how people feel in general about death of main characters of the story? I posted this in RPGs, but is also valid for all stories.
In general for now my games have been quite on the "happy side", but I wanted to bring a bit of more darkness to them (mouhahah!). I know in Loren for example you could kill Mesphit, but it was an optional choice and the "canon ending" was that he is alive (since is present in Loren 2, duh!). Same thing for the other "possible death" in the story (won't say more because of spoilers)
I am not planning to be so "evil" as R.R.Martin and have sudden death of favorite characters (anyone who watched the latest episodes of Game Of Thrones know what I mean... :lol:) but, for story reason, some people COULD die. In case of humans, it would even be "natural". Loren can't live for 150 years for example.
I'm trying to see what people think about this.
I personally think that there's the possibility of some great writing moments even in very sad scenes leading to the death of a character (either by an heroic sacrifice, or just a peaceful death) even if I understand that many people could be very disappointed by it. I guess that unless the death feel rushed and out of place, should be OK to do that?

The decisive question is: what do you think? :o

Espurr
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Re: The death of your beloved character!

Post by Espurr » Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:25 am

Depends how well it's done. If it's a bit of a side character and it's done right it could be heart-wrenching.
Spoiler:
Think the Hound in GoT, whom would have otherwise just become another pointless secondary character in the story if he'd lived.
Some of my most "Oh my God, no" moments from gaming comes from excellently executed character deaths. They are the ones you actually remember not generic hero #65662. At the same time, from seeing various communities if you kill a popular character it usually starts a riot.
Spoiler:
Mhairi from Dragon Age Awakening was such a character. First friendly face you meet, diverse and well written character and then dies with no real emphasis on it at all.
Tldr; It's tricky to work out whom to kill and how to do it, but I'm all for it. I'll just eat my words later when I lose a character I like =(
Restraint Pokémon

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Miakoda
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Re: The death of your beloved character!

Post by Miakoda » Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:10 pm

I don't mind the death of a main character, but it has to feel like it fits.

For example, one of the worst choices I've seen where a character dies was the choice between Ashley and Kaiden in Mass Effect 1. I had no problem with the player deciding which one they save...but I'm sorry, if my Shepard could rescue one person, then the other people in the crew could have rescued the other.

And as for someone dying of old age, like in a human/elf romance, I consider that a normal progression of the story. Of course, that could then lead to someone trying to resurrect a lost love (and with gruesome consequences)...

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jack1974
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Re: The death of your beloved character!

Post by jack1974 » Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:45 pm

Interesting suggestions. And yes of course it's tricky. It's EXTREMELY TRICKY :lol:
Spoiler:
just think about all the fuzz in forums when Loren (base game) would force you to sacrifice someone. Or the inevitable epilogue with Chalassa's death in SOTW
DLC and alternate realities can help it, but in some cases you really want to say that character Y IS DEAD. GONE. And it's always painful, because for sure there are many people who liked him/her. If it's a love interest, even more :)
I guess that probably to start is better to kill someone that is not a love interest... :mrgreen: (Mesphit, anyone?)

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fabulaparva
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Re: The death of your beloved character!

Post by fabulaparva » Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:49 pm

jack1974 wrote: I guess that probably to start is better to kill someone that is not a love interest... :mrgreen: (Mesphit, anyone?)
Lol, I never played Loren as a base game only. I came to it so late that I bought directly Loren + extension, and Mesphit was the first romance I ever read. :P

If there's a good, storyline-supporting reason to kill someone and it's done well, I'm all for it. I don't like pointless deaths for only shock value nor for it being cool because darker fantasy and GoT is all in rage now. But equally, I strongly dislike happy endings if the only reason for it seems to be "because there has to be a happy ending." (I don't think the many deaths in GoT are exactly pointless, either. It's well done for the generic atmosphere of no-one being safe. If you want to make a game where no-one is safe, then... :P)


Speaking of happy endings... Gosh I love many Disney movies, but my favourite version on Little Mermaid is where you press stop at the friggin' film around 5-10 minutes before if *really* ends. Same goes for Beauty and the Beast. :P

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Miakoda
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Re: The death of your beloved character!

Post by Miakoda » Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:05 pm

That is something else to consider: if there is a means to resurrect someone in a game, then that also makes the threat of death less worrisome.

If one looks at AD&D 2nd Edition, there is Raise Dead, and Resurrect (not to mention Wish and Limited Wish for wizards). True, they tried to say you had to pass a Constitution check, etc. but in the computer versions of the games (like Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights 2), 'true death' is a bit meaningless.

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Franka
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Re: The death of your beloved character!

Post by Franka » Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:03 pm

I'm biased. I love Chinese movies, and where Hollywood is known for its happy endings, those are known for their total downer endings. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon wouldn't be the same if
Spoiler:
Li Mu Bai hadn't come to a tragic end leading to Shu Lien's hard shell cracking.
Heart wrenchingly good, makes me cry every time.

But! I do think it's reasonable to complain if one out of four romanceable characters has to die while the others live. That will always lead to people picking at the reasons for that particular character to die, and assigning some sort of agenda to it. I think it should either be a side character, a one romance story, or... well, Final Fantasy VII comes to mind. You think you might be romancing someone, then BAM, Sephiroth happens, turns the story on its head and locks you into a romance you might not have pursued.

Time to level up that Restore Materia!

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jack1974
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Re: The death of your beloved character!

Post by jack1974 » Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:15 pm

Okay then some will be unhappy to know that the DLC we're planning for SOTW
Spoiler:
uses as canon ending the death of Chalassa :o :o
Though, like Miakoda said, in a fantasy world everything can happen. Raise dead, or some other magic can get back to life dead characters. Not saying that I'm going to use this heavily (rather the opposite!) but that could happen.

Also in Chalassa's specific case,
Spoiler:
after you defeat her, you don't see her body. When players goes to get the others and come back where Chalassa's corpse lies, they only find a small burn on the ground but the body is not there. That in my book is not a standard death and is unsure if she'll be back for more :wink:

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fabulaparva
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Re: The death of your beloved character!

Post by fabulaparva » Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:58 pm

jack1974 wrote: Though, like Miakoda said, in a fantasy world everything can happen. Raise dead, or some other magic can get back to life dead characters. Not saying that I'm going to use this heavily (rather the opposite!) but that could happen.
I've encountered once or twice the possibility to "bring someone back from death" in RPGs and what I liked about one specific instance is that the person was not quite the same (eventhough it made me sad, because I interpreted that a loved character was resurrected but the love died/withered, anyway). Doesn't need to be some sort of loving character turned into chaos-evil-induced-wraith-from-hell or an evil-toy-removing-torturer turned into a domestic fairy, but some significant change would be good to see. Gameplaywise some skills could be gone, some new gained. Storywise some understandings between chars destroyed, others newly built. Slightly cliche example, but imagine a paladin whose loved one dies...and the loved one is then resurrected...aren't they now technically an undead and on the paladin's target list to be "liberated"? :P Does the equally cliche abhorred dark wizard in the group now relate better to the "undead"?
<dozen sick puns removed>

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iWeasle
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Re: The death of your beloved character!

Post by iWeasle » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:04 pm

It's a tricky, but if done right, it can be a very good story tool. I will always prefer happy endings (I'm going to cry when I play the DLC since Chalassa is apparently going to be dead for it and I romanced her :cry: ). In Mass Effect 3 the deaths of
Spoiler:
Mordin and Legion
both made me cry... every time I play through :lol: , but they did advance the story and help illustrate some of the themes of the game. I however don't approve of
Spoiler:
Shepard's death, because I had spent 3 games developing him/her and I felt kind of cheated that after spending so much time working on my character and their love life it was all just suddenly ended.
In general, I don't think you should kill romanceable characters because it seems a little unfair to people who pick them, or player characters after the first game (at least if you have any control over the character) because you've then spent too much time developing them, but that's a decision that ultimately rests with the developer. If they want to tell a sad story, that's their choice, even if there are those of us who always want the heroine to get the girl :mrgreen: . I don't inherently mind someone dying if it's handled well, but I will cry every time :cry: and will always prefer the happy ending where everything magically works out :) . Of course my definition of happy ending is pretty lose, if you play as an evil character I would count destroying the world at your lovers side as a happy ending :twisted: :lol: .

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