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First person CRPG, based on the old classics like Dungeon Master or Eye of the Beholder
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jack1974
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Post by jack1974 » Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:57 pm

KnockOut wrote: You can have weapons and spells always do the same amount of damage per level but only accuracy is affected by random chance. Of course members of the party who miss would not get their spells to go up as much. But then you'd want to get hit by your opponents so you could cast heal more so your healers gain more heal xp.

I can't think of good ways to prevent abuse other than of course the ways we already mentioned breakable items, time limits. Maybe breakable spells?
The summon food was just an example, actually I don't know if I'll use food in the game :)
What you mean "weapon/spells do the same amount of damage per level"? you mean proportional damage?

What I think to do is increase the spell stats proportionally to the level and sum the usage.
Example fire bolt basic, 1-3dmg and 15% hit chance
At level 10, 10-30dmg and 25% hit chance and so on.

It would affect damage, duration, hit chance, etc for each spell.

Of course you could want to let your fighters be hit more to be healed more, but being hit more=more damage to the armours. I could counterbalance this checking the actual difficulty of the fight, or other ways. Anyway I hope not everyone playing the game will think about cheating! :lol:

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Post by KnockOut » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:28 pm

Your latest blog on point of views made my day! Yay for following economic principles! Inflation is bad(putting in useless rooms just to inflate the game time, how many RPGs advertise 100+ hours of gameplay but only ten hours of fun?)! I mean imagine you're a movie director, and you put in a bunch of useless scenes to pad the running time.

Remember the game must follow economic principles:
1) risk versus reward
2)Inflation is bad(done!)
3) Finite resources(the most broken rule of all RPGs)
4) Gains from trade(ie. gans from classes and specialization)

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iulius
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Post by iulius » Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:11 pm

Yeah, well said!!
I hate wandering like a fool in vaste lands! I want to solve quests and fight monsters... if I want to take a walk I can just go in my garden :lol:
I like also the idea of having a sort of "preview" of what can be hidden in the next room. Of course not what kind of monsters, etc but at least knowing what there is inside, that way you can plan your strategy and maybe take a different path.

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Post by KnockOut » Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:17 pm

Okay, I read your latest blog and my vote is to emphasize less on exploration and more on combat and to have a smaller map and make it turn based.

On another note, in a lot of RPGs there's a lot of gear to buy at lower levels but then when you get to higher levels there's hardly anything to buy and it's all exorbitantly expensive. I want to see the same amount of gear available at high levels as there is at low levels.

On a similar note, please don't make it take a lot more time to get from level 9 to 10 than 1 to 2.

In fact, perahps maybe there could be less levels. This is a trilogy, so the first game you can go up to level 4 the second to level 7 and the third to level 10.

The reward for leveling is getting to min/max your characters. In a lot of RPGs the stats you increase are decided for you, the spells you get are decided for you, and the skills you increase are decided for you. I'd rather have fewer levels and get to min/max my character a little more. Lowering the number of levels would fix the coming up with spells problem as well.

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Post by jack1974 » Tue Jun 26, 2007 4:40 pm

I managed to fix the map problem right now :) so yes, even if the map has a limit of 100x100 cells, I think I'll concentrate on smaller maps.
I think I found a good compromise, movement is in real-time but because of that doesn't mean that the exploration will be boring. It is a matter of gamedesign actually: what would be boring is having to go back and forth through levels to solve quests, like in Fate for example, where you almost clear one level then you miss to kill monster X or find item Y.
I plan to make the levels more linear, so that once a place is explored, it's done, and you don't have to go back checking there again.

About the levels, no I plan to make them almost all equal. Like for example from level 1 to 2 would be required 1000XP, from level 9 to 10 would be 1200XP or so (so just 20% more).
I have yet to decide exactly how many levels to put. Indeed 30 maybe would be too much and won't make sense if the spells are just renamed but have same effect, like happens on many other CRPG.

I am not sure about 10, probably I think I'll go for 15 (so you can have 5 levels per episode).

What you mean for min/max? now I was considering to make the skill increase through practice, and also each level have XX skill points to distribute.
Right now the number of skill point is quite low though, and depending on the race. Humans have 8 SkPt, so for a level 5 you would get 40 SkPt to distribute. Considering that the skills have values from 0 to 99, maybe that would be already enough to try some interesting min/max combinations.

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Post by Astral » Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:50 pm

I plan to make the levels more linear, so that once a place is explored, it's done, and you don't have to go back checking there again.
I like this idea very much.

I also like the compromise you are thinking of making: real-time exploration and turn-based combat.
I am not sure about 10, probably I think I'll go for 15 (so you can have 5 levels per episode).
How will you handle distribution of experience points for party members who win a battle together?

Also, I think you mentioned before that you were considering a system where gaining improvement in skills requires using them. I like this idea even moreso because you will prevent abuse of it.

I'm so use to having characters that can reach high levels (and some games make that next level quickly reachable eliminating frustrating level-grinding) which for me is a satisfying experience. By reducing the number of levels the character can acheieve, I think you must increase something else to compensate; otherwise, better gear is the only think players have to look forward too. My suggestion would be to have a boatload of varying quests to give the player motivation and inspiration to keep plugging along. A questlog in the form of a checklist will keep that player from getting bored with combat, and actually inspire them to keep going that extra hour to check one more thing off their list.

Even though I haven't been posting as much, I have been following all the comments on this board and in the blog. Keep on plugging away, jack1974 your supporters are still with you even though you don't hear from them as much. :) :)

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jack1974
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Post by jack1974 » Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:18 pm

I don't know exactly how I'll divide the XP yet. Mostly RPG just divide XP for party members. Like: 100XP / 4 party members = 25XP each
But I'm thinking to assign it based on more complex calculations. For example how much a cleric heals, or a caster cast spells. Because if you encounter an easy combat, and the 2 tank finish the opponent alone and your cleric doesn't even have to cast 1 spell would be bad to give XP even to cleric that did nothing :lol:
However I'm thinking to prevent this, making absolutely "no easy battle". How? well... not making random encounter but adjusting opponent difficulty based on your party (a bit the same thing I'm doing with the latest Magic Stones expansions).
I really don't see the point in leveling "harvesting" 100 level 1 sewer rats - it becomes a boring job. Several of them is ok, but shouldn't become a routine.

The slow leveling will be balanced by the skill system and variety of skills. Also remember: my CRPG won't have a fixed party. I know maybe you won't like it, but I have planned it this way from the beginning.
What I mean exactly? that you can to go back to town and select other characters from the "Pool of Heroes", this way changing completely the game.

To better understand: you can have even a party with only fighters, but each one specialized in some way. A paladin with high two handed, a fighter with good dual wield and sword, a rogue with high piercing, etc.
Then you can go to town and pickup another party, always made only of fighters, but: a paladin specialized in blunt weapons and shield, a fighter with high critical hit, a rogue with excellent throwing weapons, and so on.

In most RPG, you have to restart the game from beginning to experience a different party - in mine in practice you can create first several parties and switch them as you play.

This is optional of course, since you can play the whole game with just the starting party, but is an extra bonus that should keep the game interesting even with fewer levels.

Or I can find other stuff to add more variety, the casters are already a lot varied, maybe I need something else for fighters, I'll think about it... :wink:

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Post by deverindeverin » Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:49 am

what about adding a special battle that if won allows you to go to a special area to get special powers or skills when doing battles in this area. you could put these in areas that might require alot of extra walking and once you finish the special battles you move to the next area of the map without the extra walking and a little somethng extra to do other than walk around. walking around trying to figure out where to go next is very boring. one of the special items that could be won is somethng that when you use it allows you special ability to scan over the area you are in, but i think you should have to battle for it not just be given it.

i like the idea of not having to go back to areas you have already cleared it does get frustrating.

i am still catching up on all the info on this game since i am new to your website, so hopefully i am not repeating something already said.

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mastro
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Post by mastro » Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:10 pm

The exploration is an essential part of any RPG. But wandering without any clue is bad either. The best RPG I've played had always some hints, in the form of the quest log, or diary, that helped the player understand where he should move next.
So my suggestion is: make exploration normal, but avoid having even to manually walk back to town.
Instead use Fallout/Troika games system: you have a menu with places you've already visited and you can just tell "go to Abandoned Town" - then the game will do a check to see if you encounter any wandering monsters on the way to get there.

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jack1974
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Post by jack1974 » Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:42 pm

Yes those are very good suggestions indeed.
I plan to make the equipment a very important point for character. In many RPG I've played, the best weapon is always a sword - I want to have an excellent weapon for every type. Including some weird ones like sickles or katana :)
So for caster there could be some special spells/potion recipe to find, while for fighting classes I'll concentrate on items (both armor and weapons).

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